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Vudar Testing Discussion Thread 11/19/08

 
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pneumonic81
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 275
Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Vudar Testing Discussion Thread 11/19/08 Reply with quote

I Did some testing of the Vudar last night, and plan to do some more tonight and then on sunday, this thread is for those observations and any discussion that may arise.

Last nights game was a fun one. It was a free for all, using the combat rally system for picking targets. Really good game. The opponents were an Orion DBR, Wyn DD, Fed DDL and Hydran DWL (converted from SFB) destroyer size vessles. I took the Vudar DW.

I was lucky enough to draw my own name last night, so I was a free agent throughout the scenario. Early in the game the Wyn and Fed mixed it up near my starting position so after thier exchange I moved in and finished the Wyn off at range 4. Fully overloaded Ions and a barrage of phasers.

The Fed was only mildly damage and moving off so I let him go (he still had PL-F and I was empty) and started heading to the other side of the board where the Hydran and Orion where exchanging shots. They both managed some shield damage on eachother but nothing more substantial. I arrived halfway through the Hydrans recharge turn and chased him into some asteriods.

Through some fancy manuvering I managed to get behind him at range 5. I blasted him with a volley in the back Overloaded Ions and a phaser barrage, which did 16 internals. Nothing amazing but it was and unreturned blast so I considered it good. However 2 impulses later He was chasing me at range 7 with hellbores. I had forced him into HETing for it, so they werent overloads, but between that and his phasers I lost both the #3 and #5 shield and took some damage on all the rest.

About this time the Orion was on his way back with the Fed also making his way in to the area. The fed moved in and crippled the hydran with overload photons, bolted Fs and phasers. The Hydran then moved to the edge of the map with the orion giving chase so he could become a free agent as well. He managed to disengage off the edge without the Orion firing a single shot at him, so the Orion became a free agent and fired a couple fs at me. being that I was low on power and phasers I turned off to run only to be shot by the Fed I helped earlier. Fortuntly I didnt take internals and was able to make a get away.

This is where the game had to end unfortuntly. Things went well for the Vudar overall, but alot of it was due to the fact I had picked my own name so no one could come after me unless I fired on them. Very big advantage.

Observations:

The IPG played no role in this game whatsoever. Any drones fired at me were not in large enough numbers for me to expend the IPG to kill them. I loaded it to 4 points on turn 1, but never again touched it.

During the recharge turn, I need to run as fast as possible because I really have no kind of secondary system like alot of the other guys. The Fed kept his Fs during his recharge turn, The hydran had gats and fusions the wyn had disruptors and drones every turn and the Orion had stealth to his benefit during recharge. So mostly I just ran and hid in asteriods. The Vudar has a fair amount of power, on par with klingon ships I'd say, so keeping 24 wasnt a problem.

The Ion cannon was a very effective weapon. I didnt have alot of trouble overloading it, as I had originally expected. In fact each time I needed to fire it, I overloaded it. This may have been because people couldnt dance with me at distance and make me use up power, I dont know. Tonights test will proove that out I think.
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Paul B
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who the heck are the Vudar?
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junior
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the most recent Communique. They're a minor race in SFB that lives in an area of space between the Klingon Empire and Hydran Kingdoms, and whose independence may or may not be a fiction created by the Klingons as an excuse to hold onto a little extra Hydran territory.
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pneumonic81
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Joined: 23 May 2008
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Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did 3 games this weekend using Vudar ships. In an effort to not drag it on, I will be brief.

The first two games were the same ships for each player, to try multiple situations. The lineup was 150 points, vudar, fed, kzinti, LDR, Hydran. The hydran won the first game, the fed was obliterated by the ldr and the ldr was crippled by the hydran which was then pursued till the end fo the game by the vudar. The vudar did however get to use the IPG to take out 4 drones. The kzinti had fired some, which werent aimed at the vudar, however, as the vudar captain, having never been able to make use of the IPG yet, i destroyed them anyway.

The second game of that string was the same setup, the fed was once again owned by the ldr, but this time as vidar, I got a shot at the ldr. The kzni killed the hydran and then waited ofr the last of us to smash eachother, then just came in and cleaned us up. Kzinti won that round.

The final game was klingons vs hydrans and vudar. strange matchup I know, but it was the funnest of the bunch. Once again however I have been unabel to find a use for the IPG. the klingons never fired enough drones at us to make it worth my while to activate the device. There were plenty of ph-3s to kill the few drones they did send, never more then 4, and always strung out. so the IPG went unused. We finally won, but I died damaging thier command ship.

My impressions so far. I have played 5 games with the Vudar ships. The Ion canon is fun and effective and I have develoepd a tactic that i will share in a moment which takes advantage of it. The FX arcs are peticularly handy. The IPG is virtually unused so far. I used it once against drones that werent even targeted on me. It was very effective in that one situation. Still a wepaon that is effective in onyl one situation doesnt really seem all that nice to me. the ships have good power tho, if played right. everything else seems pretty good. It just seems like there is a gap there. The ships feel like there is only 2 types of guns, phasers and Ions. the IPG is merely a hit point. Thats how it feels so far.

Ion Canon Tactics: Because of the lack of a secondary weapon system or something to use in between Ions charges, and also because of the overload rules that were added to fedcom, I decided that it woudl be cheaper to fire OONLY 2 overloaded Ions per turn, if in overload range. Basically I make my attack run on an oblique abngle, fire the FA Ions at 8 and do the 12-24 damage (they are fairly accurate). then peel off. The FX remain hot for the next turn when I will overload them for another 24 against my pursuer. the reaosn this works so well is, 4 standard Ions is also only 24 damage. its best to fire 2, get the 24 that way and have something to fire on your recharge turn. This way you can tear your oppents front shields up, maintain high speeds and still fire every turn. I found that by doing this I was saving 2 points per turn also because to arm a Ion is 2 points, but to hold one is only 1 point. so every turn I am holding 2 and arming 2 rather then arming all 4.

So thats it so far. I will continue to post as I play more with the Vudar.
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Paul B
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pneumonic81 wrote:
Once again however I have been unabel to find a use for the IPG. the klingons never fired enough drones at us to make it worth my while to activate the device. There were plenty of ph-3s to kill the few drones they did send, never more then 4, and always strung out. so the IPG went unused. . .

. . .The IPG is virtually unused so far. I used it once against drones that werent even targeted on me. It was very effective in that one situation. Still a wepaon that is effective in onyl one situation doesnt really seem all that nice to me.


Couldn't the same comment be applied to the ADD? The ADD is a weapon which is only used once all pre-impact direct fire phasers have failed to stop a drone, but it's still a nice weapon. Skimming over the IPG rules, it seems that it's real boon is against fighters not drones. Perhaps more battles against the Hydrans in fleet scenarios will yield better results. Or even, more battles against the Kzinti who like to launch 4 or so drones on impulse 8 then another 2 on impulse 1 for a 6 drone stack o' doom.

The Klingons and Feds don't use nearly enough drones (or fighters) it seems to me for an anti-drone weapon to come into its own.
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ships that have ADDs also have drones. No combat regular only has ADDs as a secondary system
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Paul B
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pneumonic81 wrote:
ships that have ADDs also have drones. No combat regular only has ADDs as a secondary system


True but, the IPG is also anti-fighter (and also anti-defense sat, anti-shuttle and anti-drone).

All I'm saying, is that the primary compliment of weaponry seems irrelevant. The ship isn't going to be shooting at itself, unless you've got a civil war going on. A Kzinti ADD versus some types of Feds or Gorn or Romulans is pretty useless. But a Kzinti vs a Kzinti or a Klingon, then it becomes useful. The Vudar seem too busy staying alive to fight amongst themselves. If the main aggressors in their region are the Klingons then an anti-drone weapon makes sense. If the Hydrans are nearby with their fighters (or whoever), then again, the IPG makes sense.

And in practice, the IPG is not necessarily the only tool you use. Let's say for example, that you've got two drones coming in at a Heavy Cruiser. At the end of the step, the two drones are one hex away to port. All your weapons are still at the ready. Now, you still want to go smash the Klingon's face in, so you want your Phaser-1s. But at the same time, at a range of 1 hex, your PH-3 might not kill a drone. So what do you do? One thing you can do is, fire one point of energy from the IPG. Then fire the Ph-3 and fire the Ph-2 as a phaser 3. 2 points of energy yes, but two dead drones guaranteed. Don't even have to roll. AND, you've got all of your good guns at the ready still.

And what's the alternative? Firing a Ph-3 and a Ph-2? Let say you really foul it up, and roll a 5 and a 6. You've spent 1.5 power, and neither drone is destroyed (3 damage each). So next phase you have to fire your IPG anyway to kill the drones, or use two points of power for tractor beams, or whatever. In most battles, I think that's how I'd use it. Just because you can use four power in the IPG, doesn't mean you need that four power. You don't have to arm the IPG, don't have to do much of anything with it if you don't need it. But it seems to supplement defensive fire quite handily so your real guns can concentrate on taking the fight to the enemy.

Especially considering that the ships seem to have next to no point defense weapons facing to the side.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your testing seems very,'focused', you seem to like 1 ship each in a free for all. We tend to play scenarios with multiple ships per side, and generally where there are only 2 sides (with multi players). Go through the hydran or klingon scenarios and do a force substitution of their enemy to replace them with Vudar, though probably a bit hard with only 2 ships available at the moment.

I'd love to do this myself, unfortunatley we don't play frequently enough, and with the other players also having scenarios they would like it could be a while before I get a go (and I already have something else slated down for trying out as well).

Personally I think the IPG looks like a great system. It does seem to compliment the ships very well, I'd rather have an IPG than a Fed special drone rack.
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have alot of players so we play alot of games. We tend to do a more contorlled free for all system where people have to draw names for thier targets. however the 3rd game we played was a 2 sided action. One guy got a klingon group, and me and another guy got similar bpv in ships.

I know I seem to rant on abotu the IPG but the thing I have played a really long time, and the IPG acts exactly as I expected it would. Its great against a swarm of drones, if your opponent decided to cooperate. Its deadly effective against fusion fighters, not so much against drone based BOM fighters like the ones in CL35. The best way to defeat the IPG is to simply string the drones out and force the vudar to fire or tractor them. either way he is wasting power.

Now, if your a hydran fusion ship that has to fight Vudar, your screwed. If all you have is 4 fusions beams and a bunch of fighters, well the Vudar is gonna own ya. The IPGs ability to fire during defensive fire pretty much ruins the hydran carriers day, the stingers guns suck beyond range 2 so they will die before getting a chance.

Now I also Understand some of you are saying that Vudar should only be good at fighting the klingons and the Hydrans because of thier location in the map. Well if that is truly the case then ok, I guess the IPG is going to do a fair job. However if I was the leader of the Vudar people, and I wanted to be a member of the galaxy like the kzinti, the feds, and the gorns, then I would probably consider expanding the IPGs capablities so my race would survive against them in a general war. (sfb did this)

Personally, while I think the fed G rack is pretty gimped in Fedcom, I still think its more useful then an IPG, with only one exception, and that is against hydran stinger carriers. I would most often pick the G rack unless having to face said carriers.
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