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Historical Map of the Alpha Octant?
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Paul B
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Joined: 27 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds pretty cool. The only odd thing about the whole idea is why does everyone drive to Earth? (aside from being the capital). The Romulans in particular, it seems like they might go kick the crap out of Vulcan instead (perhaps on their way to Earth). I would assume that both Vulcan and Andor would be fairly major worlds in the Federation as well. Earth being the capital might be the central world, but not necessarily the most important to the war effort (despite the fact that 98% of the crew for the Federation seems to be humans).

I know that in the FASA game there are a group of Andorian-designed ships which tend to be more war-orientated. I know about the so-called nation guard fleets in SFU, but I'm not sure if there are supposed to be certain ships which are less human-centric. (ie, maybe some CAs or other ships have crews which are not predominantly human. Andorian-crewed ships for example (with of course some token vulcan for the science officer and to fit the Star Trek formula)). In TOS I don't recall seeing a lot of non-enterprise ships. The only non-Enterprise Federation ship I recall being on was the . . . Constellation was it? (Doomsday machine), and of course the only person alive was the captain. So other ships may have more non-humans.

I noticed that the PD books seem to give equal airtime (on the cover at least) to the Vulcans and Andorians.
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go through Junior's Recap and just insert the word "Core Wrorlds" or "Capital Province" every time he says Earth. If I remember right Earth Vulcan Andor and maybe Rigel are all in the Capital Province (6 Hexs in F&E) of the Federation. You can't attack one with out attacking them all or they will flank you.

The other thing Junior skipped over to make matters worst for the Feds... The Orion Home Province Succeded from the Federation and declared they were 'neutral' this gave the Klingon and Romulans the bottom third of the Federation. Eventaually the Federation Starfleet push back to Orion. At which thime Orion said sure we will rejoin, we were wondering what took you so long to get back to us.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earth has the main fleet yard for the Federation - just as Veltrassa does for the ISC. If you want to land a critical blow to either powers' abilities to prosecute a conflict, hitting the yards can help.
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drwibble
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re the matter of non-human crews, if memory serves correctly then in the original series we started out with only 12 listed Constitution class starships. Of these, about four of the class named in "The Making of Star Trek" were stated as being destroyed in various episodes. This included the USS Intrepid, which was noted as having an all-Vulcan crew. I think that was the ship first destroyed by the space amoeba before the USS Enterprise discovered how to kill the creature. Kirk's manner didn't suggest that starships predominently with crews from other worlds was particularly out of the ordinary.

Not sure whether the above fits into SFU history though.


Last edited by drwibble on Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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junior
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drwibble wrote:
Re the matter of non-human crews, if memory serves correctly then in the original series we started out with only 12 listed Constellation class starships.


13, actually. iirc, there's a quick reference to this in the ship description in Klingon Border, as well (though if you're not aware of the significance of the number 13, then you'll miss it).


With regards to "drives on Earth", Earth is the political center of the Federation, and also the location of its primary shipyards. Successfully take Earth, and you literally rip the heart out of the Federation. While it doesn't necessarily completely wipe the Federation out, taking Earth would have represented a nearly insurmountable advantage for the Coalition. The Federation was by far the most powerful member of the Alliance, and losing Earth would have crippled the Federation's war efforts for years, as well as being hugely demoralizing.

Additionally, most of the Capital Hexes in Federation and Empire (the strategic game for the Starfleet Universe) have multiple important planets (the exception is the Gorn Confederation, which has one planet in each of three adjacent hexes instead). Vulcan is close enough to Earth that it's located in the same hex. iirc, Rigel is as well (and in fact there's a very old scenario dating back to one of the first few issues of Captains Log that details a Romulan sneak attack on Rigel that was countered by the fortuitious simultaneous arrival of a Federation task force). And there's a fourth important planet there - probably Andor, but I don't remember for certain.

So a drive on Earth also represents a drive on those other important planets. It's just that out of the planets, Earth is the most important due to what it represents to the Federation. Capture Earth, and in addition to the significant psychological shock to the Federation, you also destroy the Federation's primary shipyards, and cut off all major ship construction for a few years until a new one can be built in the Federation Survey Zone.
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drwibble
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... I don't know the significance of the "13". And it's a long long time since I watched TOS but thinking about it further, I do vaguely recall that Kirk's statement was actually that "there are only twelve like her in the fleet" regarding the Enterprise - which would in fact mean that there were indeed 13 ships in the first batch.

So what is the hidden meaning of "13"?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drwibble wrote:
So what is the hidden meaning of "13"?

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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fourth world is Andoria - though I think Alpha-Centauri, another member world, is grouped along with the Sol system for F&E purposes.


(Oh, and it's Constitution-class. The Constellation-class is the four-nacelled type of ship to which Picard's old vessel, the Stargazer, belonged.)
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drwibble wrote:
So what is the hidden meaning of "13"?


13 Colonies charted a Constitution. There for the Constitution Class was commissioned with 13 ships.

Nerroth wrote:
(Oh, and it's Constitution-class. The Constellation-class is the four-nacelled type of ship to which Picard's old vessel, the Stargazer, belonged.)


Pre Bergman times, there was a refrence source that stated the Enterprise was a Constellation Class and then another source said it was a Constitution Class. Someone finally said the Constellation Class was a precursor to the Constitution Class. Much like TOS Constitution Class is a precursor to TMP Enterprise Class. So basiclly in Holywood you can murder history however you feel like. Twisted Evil
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Paul B
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
(Oh, and it's Constitution-class. The Constellation-class is the four-nacelled type of ship to which Picard's old vessel, the Stargazer, belonged.)


Oh I know it's the constitution class. I was just trying to think of the specific name of the ship that the Doomsday machine destroys. I thought it was Constellation, though I think someone else may have mentioned Intrepid? I don't know. Unfortunately that's one of the Trek seasons I don't own yet Sad
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Carthaginian
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mat Decker did indeed skipper the NCC-1017 Constellation. She was the ship destroyed in the 'battle' against the Planet Killer, and the ship that the later Constellation class was named in honor of. Has the strange numbering of the NCC-1017 ever been reconciled? Was it really a Constitution class ship, or was it an older cruiser that was 'refitted' to that point?
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drwibble
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, goofed up on the Constellation/Constitution name... in the UK it was early morning when I posted, wasn't entirely awake.

The ship sacrificed to kill the Doomsday Machine was the NCC1017 USS Constellation (LOL, of the CONSTITUTION class!)... actually constructed for the episode using a model kit of the Enterprise and the decal sheet provided with the kit, hence they made the registration 1017... (though why it never ocurred to them to make 1710 instead beats me!).

Other ships were the Intrepid (destroyed by the space amoeba), Defiant... can't remember how that one was destroyed but I do remember it was mentioned in the series. Enterprise killed all crew on board the Excalibur and damaged the Hood and one other class ship during the Ultimate Computer episode. I think that Valiant might also have been listed as destroyed too.

All in all, seems that Enterprise was lucky to survive through several five year missions and a refit! Still, Kirk did his best before he finally pushed that "self destruct gambit" too far and actually did blow up his own ship...
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Paul B
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the list from the SF Tech Manual
1017 Constellation**
1700 Constitution
1701 Enterprise
1702 Farragut**
1703 Lexington
1704 Yorktown
1705 Excalibur
1706 Exeter
1707 Hood
1708 Intrepid**
1709 Valiant**
1710 Kongo
1711 Potempkin
1371 Republic

**Lost in Action

There's also like 50 other names but I don't know if those ships were supposidely built later on or what.
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Carthaginian
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drwibble wrote:
Defiant... can't remember how that one was destroyed but I do remember it was mentioned in the series...


Defiant was trapped in a temporal anomaly in Tholian space, resulting the the incident the Enterprise had with the Tholians, IIRC.
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drwibble
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carthaginian wrote:
drwibble wrote:
Defiant... can't remember how that one was destroyed but I do remember it was mentioned in the series...


Defiant was trapped in a temporal anomaly in Tholian space, resulting the the incident the Enterprise had with the Tholians, IIRC.


Excellent! Thanks, that was starting to bug me!

Hmm... there's 14 ships on Paul B's list... Republic seems to have another "out of range" serial number (and without an explantion for this one), so I'm guessing that it was a later addition... which would leave us with the 13 original ships and the "magic 13" symbolism... all in all we are not doing too bad considering we are recollecting on a 40 year old television series!
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