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F&E Map
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atomic
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Memphis

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: F&E Map Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me how big the hexes are on the Federation and empire map? I don't mean 1" across, I'm looking for the distance in light years (the FC hexes are 10,00 across, right/). I am considering getting one of the F&E maps to use for campaigns. Or am I looking at comparing apples and oranges?
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Sgt_G
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Officially, 500 parsecs across, which equates to about 1650 lightyears. And they're 500 parsecs thick.

Now, that's not to say you can't simply ignore that scale (and the six-months per turn scale) to go ahead and use the maps anyway. make the scale whatever you "need" it to be.

I would ignore the official F&E Order of Battle (OOB) as the fleets are simply too massive to run a FedCmdr or SFB campaign.
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Sgt_G
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: F&E Map Reply with quote

atomic wrote:
I am considering getting one of the F&E maps to use for campaigns.


Of course, you can buy the color F&E map as "spare parts", but did you know you can get a B&W copy online?

http://www.federationcommander.com/west_map.shtml

http://www.federationcommander.com/east_map.shtml
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atomic
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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Location: Memphis

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense. I'm guessing that I got the distance wrong on the FC map, it's probably 10,000 miles, not light years. Surprised
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4449
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: F&E Map Reply with quote

Sgt_G wrote:
atomic wrote:
I am considering getting one of the F&E maps to use for campaigns.


Of course, you can buy the color F&E map as "spare parts", but did you know you can get a B&W copy online?

No... no... no...
He needs to get the Large Scale Map. It's easier to read and easier to mark campaign information on!
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atomic
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Memphis

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I was thinking about repainting one of the walls in my office with a 1 to 1 scale map of the alpha quadrant
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atomic wrote:
Actually, I was thinking about repainting one of the walls in my office with a 1 to 1 scale map of the alpha quadrant

then your office is quite a bit bigger than mine.... Smile
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atomic
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Sgt_G
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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Location: Offutt AFB, Nebraska

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atomic wrote:
That makes sense. I'm guessing that I got the distance wrong on the FC map, it's probably 10,000 miles, not light years. Surprised


The SFB tactical map, and I presume the FedCmdr map, has a scale of 10,000 KM per hex. I forget what the time-scale is.

As I said, the F&E map has a much larger stratigic-level scale. But you can still use the map and "adjust" the scale to fit. Another idea is to use the povincial areas instead of hexes, such as the one I did here:

http://members.cox.net/garth.getgen/f&e_provincial_map_no_numbers.gif


Once upon a time, I was trying to create a "lite" version of F&E but ran into some major problems and dropped the entire idea. However, I did come up with some useful stuff that maybe might could possibly be used for building a FedCmdr campaign.

As I mentioned, the F&E Order of Battle (OOB) starts with over six hundred ships in the Four Powers (Klingon, Lyran, Kzinti, and Hydran). Add in the Federation, and the count soars to over eight hundred. Way too much for a SFB/FedCmdr campaign.

Another problem is the Federation starts with over forty CA hulls. If you watched the show, you might recall that Capt JTK stated that there were only a dozen ships like the "E". In order to get the numbers down to a reasonable level, I cut all the fleets to one-third the F&E size. I dug the files out of my archives and extracted the OOB listed below:


Federation: 2xDN + 11xCA + 4xCL + 6xDD + 12xFF + 1xTG = 36 Ships
These ships are spread more or less evenly in Federation space.
Note: These include varients of the base-hull. Example, the CA includes CC, CVS, GSC, etc.
Mothball Fleet: 2xCA + 8xCL + 3xDD + 6xFF = 19 Ships (activate three ships per turn while at war)
Total = 55 Ships, does not include Pre-War Construction (PWC)
PWC = 1xCA + 1xNCL + 1xFF per six-month turn, change to 1xDN + 1xFF once every other year.
Wartime Construction: 1xCA + 4xNCL + 4xFF per six months for first two years, then alternating 1xCA + 1xNCA + 4xNCL + 1xDW + 3xFF on Spring turns and 1xDN + 4xNCL + 2xDW + 3xFF on Fall turns
Note: The wartime construction lists the standard capability of the shipyards. One can exceed this, but at a much higher cost (double), by building ships outside the spacedock. Large ships such as the DN cannot be built this way.

Klingon: 2xC8 + 10xD7 + 12xD6 + 1xD5 + 24xF5 + 15xE4 + 2xTG = 66 Ships
Note: One of every three F5 is a F5L, and one of every five D7 is a D7C.
Mothballed Fleet: 8xD6 + 4xF5 + 4xE4 = 16 Ships (activate four ships per turn while at war)
Imperial Reserves: 3xD7 + 1xD6 + 3xE4 = 7 Ships (released only if Klingon Home World area has been attacked, or if the Empire is at war with three of its neighbors)
Total = 89 Ships, does not include KR ships sent to Romulan
Wartime Construction: 1xD7 + 3xD5 + 3xF5 per six month turn. Replace 1xD7 with 1xC8 + 1xD6 every Fall turn on odd-numbered years. Starting in Y175, 1xF5 becomes 1xF5W every turn, and 1xD5 becomes 1xD5W every other turn.

Lyran: 1xDN + 8xCA + 3xCW + 6xCL + 1xDW + 10xDD + 7xFF + 1xTG = 37 Ships
Wartime Construction: four or five ships per six-month turn.

Kzinti: 1xDN + 7xBC + 1xCV + 5xCL + 2xCVL + 2xCVE + 3xDD + 12xFF + 1xTG = 34 Ships
Wartime Construction: four or five ships per six-month turn.

Hydran: 1x(LB+LM+LC) + 3x(DG+RN) + 3x(KN+LN) + 1xLNG + 2xPGS + 1xHR + 2x(CR+CU+HN) + 1xHNG + 1xFCR + 1xSC + 1xTG = 29 Ships
Wartime Construction: four or five ships per six-month turn.

Gorn:
Starting fleet = 4xBC, 6xCL, 8xDD, 1xSC, 1xTG = 20 Ships.
PWC = 1xDN, 1xCL, 4xHD, 7xBD, 1xDD = 14 Ships.
Grand total of 34 ships.
Wartime Construction: three or four ships per six-month turn.

Romulan fleet:
Old-series ships = 1xVUL, 1xKE, 10xWE, 1xFAL, 1xSE, 1xCE, 1x[3FE], 4xBH, 4xSN, 4xSNB = 30 Ships.
KR-ships (converted Klingon ships) = 1xKRC, 1xK7R, 2xKR, 1xKRM, 1xKRT, 2xK5L, 4xK5, 1xK5S, 1xK4 = 14 Ships.
New-series ships = 1xSP, 1xSK = 2 Ships.
Total = 46 Ships.
Pre-War Construction: Old-series ships = Zero.
KR-ships = 1xKC9, 3xK4 = 4 Ships.
New-series ships = 1xCon, 1xSUP, 1xFH, 6xSP, 1xSPF, 1xSPB, 1xSPC, 1xSPG, 2xSK, 1xSKB, 3xSKE, 1xSKF, 1xSKG = 21 Ships.
Total = 25 Ships.
Grand total = 71 Ships.
Wartime Construction: four to six new-series ships per six-month turn, plus two old-series ships per year.

Tholian: 1xDN, 1xCA, 2xDD, 6xPC, 1x[3CPC], 1xSC
PWC = Either 1xPC or 1xDD per turn. One multi-ship merge (3xPC -> 1xDN, 2xPC -> 1xCA, etc) per year.
Wartime Construction: Either 2xPC or 1xPC + 1xDD plus one multi-ship merge per turn.
Neo-Tholian Fleet arrivals: 1xNDN, 2xNCA, 3xNCL


As you may already know, the General War (aka the Great Galatic War) started as a border skirmish between the Lyran and Kzinti and quickly gathered up the Klingons and Hydran. The Federation got roped into the war about four or five years after it started, followed by the Romulan and Gorn a year or two later. Hence the "PWC" listings in the OOB.

At any rate, this might give you a running start at a campaign. I have several ideas how one might work out the economics and logistics, but I haven't put the words on the screen. Basic idea is you have a bunch of frieghters that have to move cargo form one planet to another to earn money. In F&E, this is done behind the sceens. But in a FedCmdr campaign, you want the freighters on the map to provide targets.
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Last edited by Sgt_G on Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm ... sorry for the Book Of The Month Club posting. Guess I got a little carried away. Smile
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atomic
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's awesome info! Thanks for sharing that. That will give me plenty to chew on.
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Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sgt G that was a great post actually thank you for the great info.
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, typing ideas off the top of my head, so don’t expect any organization.

First, I noticed an error in the OOB. Well, not actually an error per say, but I forgot that there are no Tugs or Scouts in FedCmdr. You can changed these to base-hulls or just delete them.

Campaign scale: one turn per month. A warship can move two areas in one month. Freighters can only move one area. Warships with damaged warp drive (more than 33% warp boxes marked off) can only move one area. Who cares how “big” an area is?

Not sure about turn sequence ... is it “you move all / I move all”, or alternating one ship at a time, or some sort of written all-move-at-same-time system ...... the possibilities are endless.

Money: Each planet generates “X” number of mega-credits (MC) per year. This could be a set rate such as one per month, or it could be randomized, such as: roll a d6 for each planet per month. A 6 = two MCs, 4 or 5 = one MC, 2 or 3 = no MC, and a 1 = remove one MC if any are “in stock” at the planet. Place a marker on the planet to show the goods are waiting for pickup. (Yes, this idea was borrowed from the railroad game.) Money (goods) must be picked up by a freighter and moved to the capital before it can be spent. A Free Trader can carry two(?) MC worth of goods. A small freighter can carry three(?) MC, and a large freighter can carry twice that, of course.

Don’t forget to include Orion pirates in your campaign!!!! They have lots of targets and planets to raid.

Build rates: each empire starts with three space docks in the shipyard (at the starbase over the capital planet), one for each size-class, plus a “civilian” dock for building freighters and police cutters. Each dock can add one “point” per month of construction. Use the F&E points. Example, CA = 8 points, so it takes eight months to build a CA. It is possible but expensive to build ships outside the dock. A starbase can build FF, Police boats, or a freighter, at a 50% surcharge (one ship at a time).

Repairs: If a ship is damaged in battle, it must return to a base for repair. If the damage is less than 25% (33% for DD, 50% for frigates), the ship is repaired “instantly”. From 25% to 50% damaged (more than 33% for DD, 50% for frigates), the ship must spend an entire month at the base. If the ship is size-class three (CL/CA) and is more than 50% damaged, it must spend two months at the base. A DN that is 75% or more damaged requires three months of repair. It cost one MC plus one per month the ship is in for repair (max of four for a heavily damaged DN). Each BATS can repair up to three ships at any one time; a Starbase can repair nine at once (eight if building a ship).

Supply: Freighters are also used to move supplies from the capital to the bases. A base can only repair ships if it has supplies in stock. Once it’s out of supplies, it can’t repair (or build) ships until such time as a freighter comes in. Ships working in their own (or allied) territory do not need supplies. But to enter or operate in enemy territory, the ship requires one-half MC worth of supplies per month. Ships begin the campaign with one MC of supplies onboard, and can carry two (three for CA or larger). Not sure what the tactical combat restrictions are for a ship that’s out of supply. One obvious thing is it won’t be able to do repair during combat, but beyond that ... reduced top speed, limited use of weapons, fewer or no shuttles ... pretty much whatever the campaign manager thinks is appropriate. (This supply requirement is here to prevent abuse such as sending a Lyran taskforce to attack the Gorn homeworld.)

Well, that’s enough for now. I’ll let you all chew on it and present your own ideas.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugs were recently added via Captains Log and Communique. More are coming in the Franz Joseph Ships booster, etc.

Scouts, maulers, etc., are available via Borders of Madness, should folks choose to tread that path.
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the original question: How big is an F&E map hex?

As I stated, it's 500 parsecs across and thick. That's 125,000,000 cubic parsecs.

Now, let's assume for simple-math's sake that there's an average of one stellar body every five parsecs, or one such per 125 cubic parsecs. That means there are roughly one million stellar bodies per F&E hex.

One can further assume that 10% of these are stars with planetary systems, and then 1% of those have planets worth visiting. That's about a thousand planets that one could "safely" put a mining base or military outpost on. Let's further estimate that 1% of these planets are Class-M and can support life without too much terraforming required. Therefore, by this math, there are approximately ten potential colony worlds in each F&E hex.
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Last edited by Sgt_G on Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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