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Multiple tractor beams

 
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captcorajus
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Multiple tractor beams Reply with quote

The other night I had a d7 surrounded by 3 gorn ships. At 1 hex away I attached 1 tractor from each ship.

Am I correct when I say the D7 must tractor auction each ship individually?

If multiple ships remain attached how does that work for movement and so forth?

Thanks
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At any given point in time, a ship may only be tractored to one other ship. (This does not apply to objects like drones or shuttles or "pucks".) So, only one of the Gorn ships can tractor you; not all three.

The way it works is this: One Gorn ship may attempt to tractor you. (If two try, they must have a tractor auction against each other to see who wins. Not a bright idea if they are on the same side.) When that tractor attempt is made, you may attempt to counter it with negative tractor. If he succeeds, then you have both spent the power, and neither of the other Gorn ships may tractor you. If you succeed, then the tractor attempt fails.

Note that the negative tractor you generated stays with your ship for the entire turn. So, if both you and the first Gorn finished your auction at 10 points each (meaning the tractor attempt fails), then if either of the other two Gorns attempt to tractor you this turn, they must start their attempt with 11 points of power. Anything less is a guaranteed waste of energy and use of their tractor.

But it is important to remember that a given ship may only be tractored by one ship (5D5b) or may only tractor one ship (5D6b). There are no tractor "blobs" or tractor "daisy chains" in Federation Commander.
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Magnum357
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Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike thanks for explaining this. I have been a little confused by the rules of Tractors and Tractor auctions and this explaination helped a bunch for me. May I recommend putting a "sticky" on this post for future reference? Or perhaps the "rules consolidation thread"? Might help new players.
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captcorajus
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
At any given point in time, a ship may only be tractored to one other ship. (This does not apply to objects like drones or shuttles or "pucks".) So, only one of the Gorn ships can tractor you; not all three.

The way it works is this: One Gorn ship may attempt to tractor you. (If two try, they must have a tractor auction against each other to see who wins. Not a bright idea if they are on the same side.) When that tractor attempt is made, you may attempt to counter it with negative tractor. If he succeeds, then you have both spent the power, and neither of the other Gorn ships may tractor you. If you succeed, then the tractor attempt fails.

Note that the negative tractor you generated stays with your ship for the entire turn. So, if both you and the first Gorn finished your auction at 10 points each (meaning the tractor attempt fails), then if either of the other two Gorns attempt to tractor you this turn, they must start their attempt with 11 points of power. Anything less is a guaranteed waste of energy and use of their tractor.

But it is important to remember that a given ship may only be tractored by one ship (5D5b) or may only tractor one ship (5D6b). There are no tractor "blobs" or tractor "daisy chains" in Federation Commander.


Actually, the rule is vague, and sounds more like the result of two enemy ships trying to tractor the same ship... say one to capture and a friendly trying to prevent it.

The idea that friendly ships working together can't coordinate tractors sounds more like a rule over simplication and defies logic. I don't like it.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

captcorajus wrote:
The idea that friendly ships working together can't coordinate tractors sounds more like a rule over simplication and defies logic. I don't like it.

Friendly ships can work together, they just can't combine power in tractors. FWIW, in the case of the D7's negative tractor applying against all three enemies, that is the same as how it works in SFB. Even in SFB, the tractors are treated independently.
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tort518
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Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the good capt was attempting with the multiple tractors was to trick the other player into paying for negative tractor against all the tractoring ships so he wouldn't have power for weapons or other actions.

That only works against people afraid to go to their afterlife, not Klingon warriors. Twisted Evil
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Friendly ships can work together, they just can't combine power in tractors. <snip>

I know this is not what you were meaning here, Mike, but I have another couple of questions relating to friendly ships and tractor beams.

1) Friendly ship in a tractor cannot fire weapons in the Offensive Fire phase (5D6c) and cannot launch weapons ( (5D6c) in the CRUL). However, can they launch 'normal' shuttles and/or Web anchors [Tholians only, obviously] and probes [for information, not as a weapon]?

2) The two-starships-joined-by-tractor rules seem to be designed for ships which are hostile; one of them doesn't want to be tractored and certainly doesn't want to go where the controlling ship is trying to take it. So the rules allow only the controlling ship to move the pair, and even then at a reduced rate. My question then, is that if it's two friendly ships and one tractors the other, what happens to their movement - since the ships are not opposing each other, they could co-operate?

It's probably an obvious answer, but say I had a Fed CA at speed 16 tractoring a Fed FF at speed 16, the Fed CA would control movement, and the linked pair would move at a baseline speed of 8, why could they not both move at speed 16 still, because one is not trying trying to escape the other? They're not opposing each other.

Why would I want to have that tractor, then? Well let's say that the CA had to counter-tractor the FF earlier in the turn as a nasty, mean D7 was trying to tractor it. Let's say the CA won the auction and gained a nice 5-point strength beam. Fearing further such attempts by other enemy ships later in the turn, the CA maintains its tractor with the same power for the rest of the turn in order to discourage such attempts.

So, then, can they co-operate and keep their speed at 16? Or do they move at speed 8 like linked enemy ships would do?

Plus I see that the CRUL does not contain the rules about what happens if a ship being tractored attempts to counter-tractor, and wins the auction and is then the possessor of a nice shiny new tractor link [re your 1st October 2007 post on this thread: http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=657 ] - 'dueling tractor attempts'. Perhaos we should ahve taht in?
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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In FC the speed issue isn't about one ship fighting the speed of the tractoring ship ---

Its about the extra Mass of the ships as a whole, along with the change the warp bubble would have to configured to ---
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolo got it.

The movement restrictions caused by tractors is not because of cooperation versus fighting. It is just the nature of tractor beams and the interactions that they cause.

So, whether the ships are friendly or hostile, the restrictions are still in effect.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough. Thanks for that, guys Smile
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m1a1dat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This situation came up for us recently: enemy Ship Z tractors Ship A, to slow it down so that seeking weapons can catch up with the fast flying Ship A. Also Ship A has no power so can not fight off the tractor. Friendly Ship B is also right next to Ship A and does not want friendly Ship A to be tractored. Knowing that a ship can only be tractored by one other ship friendly Ship B also tractors Ship A.

So we know that a ship can only be tractored by one other ship and they (Ship Z and Ship B) have the tractor auction. The question is does either Ship Z or Ship B have to "win" the auction by paying more tractor energy than the other? What if Ship B only spends energy to equal Ship Z? Would this only cancel out both tractors?

Since the two freindly Ships (A and B) don't want to be tractored at all so they can continue moving without be slowed down. That is why my Ship B tractored Ship A and didnt want to win the auction, just stop the enemy Ship Z from grabbing Ship A and slowing it down. I hope i explained this complex situation well enough to understand. Thanks.
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m1a1dat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 91
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermind. I just found my answers here

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=14624&highlight=#14624

For anyone still interested to recap the answers to my question was if both ships pay the same energy then both beams are cancelled out. Also found that you can establish a tractor and then drop it in the same Other Functions stage of an impulse.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum Smile Glad you found your answers. Mike West and a few other guys really are great at answering those questions.

And nice tank, btw.....
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