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FedComm Timeline Please
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toltesi
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: FedComm Timeline Please Reply with quote

It's been quite a while since I've posted, mainly since I've been enjoying playing FC with the single local player in Calgary--can't seem to find anyone else who's interested for whatever reason--and have been scratching my head lately. The reason is that the person I'm playing is a veteran of SFB and likes to discuss the history of the SFB universe. Needless to say this is rather confusing when one considers that in FC the date of first contact is not even identical to SFB. I feel like I'm lost since FC seems to be almost "history-less" while the SFB history is so deep and broad I'd need to spend $800+ to find out the details of which ships were introduced when and why.

I have some suggestions to help resolve the situation:

1. Could SVC consider declaring that FC's timeline is now SFB's? (Doubt that's going to happen);
2. Could a detailed timeline be created for FC that presents a timeline that is internally consistent that includes the service entry dates of ship classes; or
3. A far more elegant solution that I haven't thought of.

I have every single FC product with the exception of the Captain Logs, and I'm still confused.

Thanks for reading; have a great day!
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The Ghost
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Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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Location: Colorado Springs, CO

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Links to a couple of items elsewhere on the website that will provide some background on the Star Fleet Universe

Timeline

http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf

History of the general war

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/general_war.htm
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toltesi
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for reading and responding! You mentioned that:

The Ghost wrote:
Links to a couple of items elsewhere on the website that will provide some background on the Star Fleet Universe

Timeline

http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf


I've actually read through and the part that's problematic for me is this (quoted from the timeline.pdf file):

Quote:
The timeline and history for the Star Fleet Universe is one which has been firmly established in the many years since the birth of Star Fleet Battles, and it is included here to allow you to establish a setting for your adventures. It does not follow the standard Anno Domini or Common Era system, but instead features a 225-year period that begins with Y1, when Humans had their first contact with neighboring races.
This edition of the timeline includes data from PD Klingons, PD Romulans, SFB Early Years, and other products and is the only single compiled copy of the timeline. Less complete versions of the timeline appear in various products. Federation Commander uses a similar but less detailed timeline.


The red highlighted portion of the above quote is my emphasis and this is the crux of the matter...what's similar, what's not, and how do the ships in Federation Commander fit into it? Frankly having a timeline that "loosely" follows SFB seems to somehow diminish FC. Is it SFB-lite, a "poor distant cousin" of its rich SFB urbanite? I hope note, because having dabbled in SFB I have no desire to go back to monochromatic circa 1980 computer graphics thank-you. The decision that was made to not include carriers for mainstream FC, which suggests that the FC universe developed differently. (Please don't post that the races found the Command and Control of fighters too difficult! Wink

I submit that FC is worthy of its own distinct timeline that includes the service entry dates of the ships included in the game. With the middle-years briefing coming up a two-page adobe PDF file posted online could solve all of these issues that seem to rear their head every few months.

As an aside, could we also have the graphics that appear at http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/west_map.shtml and http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/east_map.shtml in PDF form or at least in greater detail? When I print the images out the quality's disappointing.

Please don't misunderstand, I LOVE the game (I'd have to in order to have bought into it 100%). I just pine for a fleshed out since it's a better game in my opinion.

Thanks for reading; have a great day all!
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mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3480
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary difference is the lack of specificity in Federation Commander. Let's put it this way: Federation Commander and Star Fleet Battles are set during the General War period.

In SFB, that means the Klingons start with a D7B (the base D7 has long since been superceeded by the D7B). At some point it receives the K refit, making it the D7K. At another point it receives the Y175 refit, changing its A-racks into B-racks. In Federation Commander, however, you just have a "D7". While equivalent to the D7K, there are no refits, there are no multiple versions. It is just the "Klingon D7".

In SFB, the Federation NCA was introduced in Y176. Prior to Y176, that ship is unavailable for use in scenarios. In Federation Commander, the Federation NCA just "is". If you want to use it, or the the published scenario calls for it, use it. There is no introduction date. There is no "availability". If the ship is in the game, then it is available.

That is the difference between the SFU timeline between SFB and Federation Commander. SFB has a detailed timeline. Federation Commander has a "setting" where that timeline is, for the lack of a better term, "flattened".
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition, it seems that one of the underlying concepts of Federation Commander is that it is to be a game that is not only *fun* to play, but one that doesn't take a long time to play.

Carriers, fighters, and massive number of drones would defeat the purpose, hence, none of them in standard Federation Commander.

If you want to include them, though, you can. Just wait for the Borders of Madness product to be released.

Or you can get Captain's Log #37 which had the first published version of the fighter rules. These included how fighters are launched, landed, and reloaded on carriers. There were even ship cards for a Federation and a Klingon carrier in that issue. On top of that, by scouring the other "Legacy" online site, you can find versions of carriers for just about every other empire.

It has been stated that Borders of Madness is NOT Federation Commander and that BoM should not even be considered "optional rules" for FedComm. I like to think of it as a simplified way of bringing things from traditional SFB into the Federation Commander game system. It will be interesting to see what systems and weapons are included in the first BoM release.
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toltesi
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Aug 2008
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
In addition, it seems that one of the underlying concepts of Federation Commander is that it is to be a game that is not only *fun* to play, but one that doesn't take a long time to play.

Carriers, fighters, and massive number of drones would defeat the purpose, hence, none of them in standard Federation Commander.


Exactly...I couldn't agree more. Which is why I was relieved that carriers never showed up in FC.

Mike wrote:

If you want to include them, though, you can. Just wait for the Borders of Madness product to be released.


Frankly, I don't! FC hits the "sweet spot" of game experience / detail vs. time investment.

What I would like is a bit of "history" of the ships in terms of dates for us FC players who never bought into the SFB system...I guess the way I look at it we have all these Battleship cards which represent ships that were never built. Why not? If FC is a different game and there aren't any carriers, why not simply alter the storyline slightly to explain this?

Just my thoughts!
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Dal Downing
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Joined: 06 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toltesi wrote:
What I would like is a bit of "history" of the ships in terms of dates for us FC players who never bought into the SFB system...I guess the way I look at it we have all these Battleship cards which represent ships that were never built. Why not? If FC is a different game and there aren't any carriers, why not simply alter the storyline slightly to explain this?

Just my thoughts!


Actually Toltesi what the SFB players are trying to tell you is you really do not want a Time Line. If you were to apply a Time Line to FedCom you would have to deal with things that currently are left abstract. If you want a Time Line, first thing that is going to happen is every time you went to play a game you would have to sit down and figure out what ships you could or could not use.

The Time Line for the Star Fleet Universe is set and the same dates are significant in Fed Com that are significant in SFB. The difference is in Fed Com if you wanted to fight the Hydran War of Return you would have to fight it without half of the ships in the game, because they will not be thought of for a couple of decades. In FedCom if you want to fight a campaign set during the Hydrian War of Return you just sit down pull out ships with Hellebores and ships with Fission Beams and start playing and if you want to use Battleships go for it.

It doesn't matter what you call the point of First Contact, be it Year One or August 1st 2069 (Or whatever Date it is.) It is the same date in SFB and everything that happens over the next 2 and a Quarter Centuries is the same in Fed Com. Now this Date does not now match the ST Cannon Time line since they rewrote their for a movie and a recent series.

What you are not worrying about in Fed Com is what year did the first War Destroyer appear, or what was is the last date a Old Fed Light Cruiser can be used. This is the part that is being left abstract. To speed up Game play All ships are avaialbe from the Start. There is no Decades of Wars being Fought to fine tune your ships.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the timeline in FC being left abstract, there is a move afoot to make it a little less so: Middle Years. These ships will be from the period before the General War and from the period of TOS. Not sure how far before that they will go.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
With the timeline in FC being left abstract, there is a move afoot to make it a little less so: Middle Years. These ships will be from the period before the General War and from the period of TOS. Not sure how far before that they will go.


Briefing #2: Middle Years isn't really the introductin of a "timeline" so much as an alternative setting for Federation Commander. It still doesn't have a timeline where ships are introduced and then no longer produced. It simple has a list of ships (and other units) that are available, with anything else not available.

The other intention of Briefing #2 is to use ships that are similar to (or outright predicessors of) ships already in the game, but are different enough to change tactics. It was also a bald attempt to create a product that will work with the existing counters, but provide new ships to use with them. Smile

As for "where" in the SFU timeline Briefing #2 is set, it is at the very end. Roughly Y150-155, but with some liberties taken (e.g. Romulans and DNEs).
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dal Downing wrote:
... first thing that is going to happen is every time you went to play a game you would have to sit down and figure out what ships you could or could not use.

That was always the greatest block to starting a game of SFB. Then figuring out the drone loadouts, then.... oh, need I go on Rolling Eyes
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dal Downing wrote:
.... ships with Fission Beams....

...which fire a stream of plutonium nuclei against the target ship. The nuclei split on contact with a great release of energy and not a few neutrons as well.

Of course, they're not anywhere near as powerful as Fusion Beams. Think of them as a Middle-Years-only weapon... Wink

Just kidding, Dal. No offence meant Smile
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
Dal Downing wrote:
.... ships with Fission Beams....

...which fire a stream of plutonium nuclei against the target ship. The nuclei split on contact with a great release of energy and not a few neutrons as well.

Of course, they're not anywhere near as powerful as Fusion Beams. Think of them as a Middle-Years-only weapon... Wink

Just kidding, Dal. No offence meant Smile


None taken I am a horrible speller and usually let Spell Checker catch those, if it wasn't for Lititure Classes I may not have made it through College , Laughing this time I was half a sleep and let it jump to whatever it wanted to...

So are Fission Beams shorter ranged than Fusion Beams? Rolling Eyes
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You forgot about the deadly Fizzing Beams, which cause the enemy to choke on their soda and have fizzing liquids spew out their noses, obscuring the display screens preventing them form seeing what they're doing.

:going to go look for some paper towels to whip down my monitor and keyboard before the Mountain Dew dries:
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dal Downing wrote:
So are Fission Beams shorter ranged than Fusion Beams? Rolling Eyes

Oh yes. Max range is same-hex or less Wink
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toltesi
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Thanks! Reply with quote

Thank-you to everyone who responded; I wasn't aware of the "downside" of having a timeline. I agree that as it stands now is by far the best.

Have a great day everyone!
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