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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a little confused, but it does say a Two Turn F can be fired as a Plasma Bolt. Why would It say this, or are you in denial that it does say this? (In which case, reread Plasma Bolts.)
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4466
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang. You're right. I had to pull out the rulebook and look... but it's right there.

I apologize for the erroneous info. I guess I should have read a bit beyond the Two-turn "F" rule before I gave an answer.

That's why we pay Mike to actually answer these questions.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1954
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I've just looked in my rule book [got up off of my butt] and this is another interesting one.

Rule (4J2d) says that a two-turn F gets its completion energy 'at the time of launch'.

On the other hand, Rules (4J4a) [Step 1] and (4J4b) both specifically state that a two-turn F can be fired as a bolt.

This one's therefore a bit ambiguous. And yes, it's maybe even another CRUL item Smile The main thing is when do you add the energy to 'complete' the torp. I guess it's as you bolt it OR launch it, but this is where the clarification is needed.

Let's call for Mike to come in and sort this one.

Anyone got the Bat Signal ready?
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Last edited by Kang on Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2925
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[my earlier post has been edited to correct my erroneous take on two-turn F bolting]

USS Enterprise wrote:
are you in denial


There is no need to start name-calling. This is a reasonable discussion about specifics of the rules, as-understood by different people, until you start applying emotional-states to people you don't even know.

You can disagree, without being that way about it.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1954
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood wrote:
You can disagree, without being that way about it.

Smile There have been some very fruitful disagreements over the past week. More loopholes found and closed.

Better here than in the heat of battle... Twisted Evil
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4466
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Will...

He was completely correct. I read the rules in (4J2d) and they seemed to perfectly indicate that a two-turn "F" can not be bolted (and our group has never done so, becuase we read the same rule the same way)... but then 1 page later, in what seems to be a complete contradiction to (4J2d) - rule (4J4a and b) plainly states that you can bolt a two-turn "F".

I might have been a bit upset, too if someone was telling me that I couldn't do something that is that definite.

No offense taken, USS:E.
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked if you were in denial because I may have been being a bit unfair that I didn't cite a reference because I didn't feel like it, I was merely asking if you were denying that it was there. Apologies.

Anyway, I always hold to that what is actually said supercede any logical interpretation. For example, if I said It was hot outside and I am cold (Assuming I'm not lying about either one) I obviously mean that its hot outside, therefore the coldness means something else, heartlessness exc.

Sorry about getting into a logical debate, but lets just close with saying that if the rules say a two turn F can be fired as a Plasma Bolt, the hint that is says Launch and not Bolt cannot be used.

Scoutdad, no problem about the eronious info, I've made plenty of mistakes. In the words of Bones Mccoy "Nobody's perfect."
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, the specific over-rides the general.

until I hear otherwise from SVC or MJW, I will admit that the specific rule (4J4) over-rides the general rules (4J2) and am therefore forced to agree that two-turn "F" can indeed be bolted.

Wait til the next time we get together to play Fed Comm. Anybody within 200 miles of middle TN is going to be able to hear the screams of "Foul!" when I bolt my "F's" at two turns!!!! Cool
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Last edited by Scoutdad on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That ought to be exciting. Unfortunately, if you're in Tennessee, your more than 200 miles distance from me.
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"The good of the many outweighs the good of the few"

"Since my customary greeting would seem entirely self serving, I will simply say good luck."

"Live long and Prosper."
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1954
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
That ought to be exciting. Unfortunately, if you're in Tennessee, your more than 200 miles distance from me.

Still within range of a bolted 'F', though Wink

200 miles for a Yank? That's just next door to you guys, surely? [and don't call me Shirley]

I still think we need to sort out when the energy is added. Perhaps they should change the wording from 'time of launch' to 'time of launch or bolting'.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even with the bolting funtction of the Two turn F, scoutdad has made a very good argument for G. I won't disregard it as worthless anymore.
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinecone wrote:
Even with the bolting funtction of the Two turn F, scoutdad has made a very good argument for G. I won't disregard it as worthless anymore.


Huzzah! Pinecone, if you make it to Origins - track me down. I'll buy you a beer (root, that is Smile ) and a booster of Pokemon cards! Wink
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
pinecone wrote:
Even with the bolting funtction of the Two turn F, scoutdad has made a very good argument for G. I won't disregard it as worthless anymore.


Huzzah! Pinecone, if you make it to Origins - track me down. I'll buy you a beer (root, that is Smile ) and a booster of Pokemon cards! Wink


If I do get there, skip the beer and I'll take two packs Wink . I'm going to try to be there but I think things look grim at this point Sad .
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apart from the better rate of fire of the two-turn-F, the F-torp only matches the G-torp in the first impulse. After that, the G-torp is superior.

As usual, the tactical circumstances will dictate the player's choice. Sticking to hard-and-fast rules loses games Smile
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