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Klingon D7 & D7C Points

 
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MajerBlundor
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:07 pm    Post subject: Klingon D7 & D7C Points Reply with quote

The D7 and D7C appear to be identical but the D7C is more expensive in both Fleet and Squadron scales.

It's only a few points more but I'm curious as to why the difference. Am I missing something on the ship card?
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Democratus
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More Phaser 1's and 2 more power.

The D7C is an amazing ship.
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MajerBlundor
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

We play fleet scale and I missed the PH-1 360 on the D7C vs the PH-2 on the D7.

It also appears that in Fleet scale they have the same power while in squadron they're different.

I'm getting used to "sabre dancing" and will using these ships in a battle this evening (my son has chosen two King Eagles vs my D7 and D7C.)
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terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1371

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC the D7C also has an extra ADD in Squadron Scale. May also have more Marines, not sure.
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"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West
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RIS_Mace
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MajerBlundor wrote:
I'm getting used to "sabre dancing" and will using these ships in a battle this evening (my son has chosen two King Eagles vs my D7 and D7C.)


Good choice! I think Klingons are among the best to deal with plasma because the fast, long-range sabre dance makes it so difficult to land a plasma hit. Please let us know how it goes.
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MajerBlundor
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my D7 and D7C handily beat both Romulans (commanded by #1 son using two 75-point warbirds) and Gorns (commanded by #2 son using destroyers and a frigate since he likes small ships) in squadron duels.

Both fights could have gone either way for different reasons but in the end were not very close. In both cases the Klingon ships had one virtually untouched and the other damaged but not even crippled.

The Gorn fight got really hairy and only a successful HET at the last moment allowed one of my ships to turn and then accelerate away from a bunch of plasma-Fs (I got silly and too close to the remaining DD and FF after destroying one of the Gorn DDs).

In fact, we're sort of scratching our heads on how Plasma can beat Klingons.

MB
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eblack
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few different tactics can be used. One is to keep outside of the 15 hex range and roll plasma-f's. The problem with this is, of course, the drones which can become bothersome. However, they are manageable by the gorns and the romulans can opt to cloak to reduce damage if necessary (preferably far enough away from the klingon that the slow down doesn't hurt too much).

If you cannot keep outside of the 15 range, then get to 5 and use carronades (if gorn) or get to 6-10 and use bolts to knock down a shield.

A lot of players feel that they can close to a Romulan, alpha-strike at a close range, HET and outrun any retalitory plasmas. I think this is a mistake and a tactic which works to a Romulan's favor.

First off, an f-plasma can be fired well before the alpha-strike to reduce some of the phaser-1's.

Second, the Romulan can quick-cloak (only fade out and fade back in) to reduce damage of incoming drones and other weapons.

Third, if the advasary ever begins to run away from a torp, the Romulan should turn away and retreat as well. This buys time for the Romulan to make repairs and reload f's.

Last, the Romulans have some of the best defenses in the game with a ship like the KE. 30-point shields all around and 5 armor is fearsome. Don't be afraid to take a hit to score one of your own.


Some other things to think about:

The Romulan should always be holding type G's and only upgrade them at the time of firing.

A 1 point hold (and free f's) means that a romulan can fly at speed 24+1 and either maintain a distance of his choosing or close to within range that the opponent cannot outrun a type-R.
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terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1371

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be willing to take an F-torp on a side shield to get an alpha strike in. Firing phasers is not the only possible response. Especially if I'm flying a Klingon.

Two problems with quick-cloaking: You pay for four impulses when you cloak, even if you don't use them all. Your baseline speed drops to 16 for the rest of the turn. So you lose any speed advantage, and waste power you might otherwise have used for acceleration. IMO you can either cloak or plasma ballet, but you can't really do both.

KE's 30 point shields and five armour do help against disruptors, but once the shield is breached, a KE dies pretty fast. It just doesn't many internal systems.
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"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West
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MajerBlundor
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday in our rematch between 2x 75-pt Eagles and 2x Selt CAs I armed Rs in turn 2 and targeted one on each ship. Both hit at 3 impulses after taking some phaser fire and did a lot of damage.

I then re-cloaked and came back with Fs after two turns, put both on one of the damaged CAs, and that finished him off. The other heavily damaged CA disengaged to limit victory points.

One of my Eagles was virtually untouched while the other was heavily damaged (but not crippled).
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eblack
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terryoc wrote:

Two problems with quick-cloaking: You pay for four impulses when you cloak, even if you don't use them all. Your baseline speed drops to 16 for the rest of the turn. So you lose any speed advantage, and waste power you might otherwise have used for acceleration. IMO you can either cloak or plasma ballet, but you can't really do both.

KE's 30 point shields and five armour do help against disruptors, but once the shield is breached, a KE dies pretty fast. It just doesn't many internal systems.


I agree with this... the quick cloak is an option to deal with damage, it all depends on the situation.
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pmiller13
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not see any one mentioning launching the long range torpedoes at long range. R torps are especially good at this (one reason I love King Eagles). While approaching head on it is possible to launch the R at around 16 to 18 range and then make a turn and begin slipping out. If you opponent continues to close he is going to have to deal with the torpedo at a decent strength still. Even after moving for 5 impulses (20 hexes) a plasma R will hit for 24 points of damage and an S will still hit for a respectable 14 damage.

A disruptor armed opponent may try to close in to range 15 and take a shot, however the odds are he is only going to hit with 2 or 3 disruptors for between 6 and 9 points of damage. A King Eagle easily has the power to use his 6 batteries to stop all or most of that kind of damage. After taking the shot the disruptor ship now is going to have to deal with the torp since he will have had to move toward you for at least 2 more impulses before reaching the range 15 bracket.

If your opponent turns off without closing when you launch the Torpedo then start slipping back in and give chase. There is no better place for a plasma ship to be than on the tail of a running target with most of your torpedoes still on board your ship. Plasma ships easily have the energy to do 24 + and fire phasers every turn while holding there torps. When the target gets tired of you being on his tail and turns around then give him a torp or two and turn off your self and start the whole thing over again.

Of course no tactic works in every situation but it is important to realize that it is perfectly fine to launch torpedoes at a range where most people think they are to easy to avoid.
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eblack
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I have with long range R-torps is that the KE is woefully short on power to reload and maintain speed and shield reinforce. In my experience you can only do two of those things with any sort of success.

That means that the D7, which has more power than it knows what to do with will eventually close or knock down your shields while still damaging the plasma torp enough to protect himself.

The long range R-torps are a lot more fun against other ships who are short on power like most Feds.
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