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Fed tactics against a stronger-crunch opponent

 
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RIS_Mace
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Fed tactics against a stronger-crunch opponent Reply with quote

The go-to Federation tactic in a duel seems to be to reach range 2-4 with overloads, and hopefully phasers at range 0. But is this still the case when facing a equally-sized Hydran or plasma-armed ship? Those races can usually beat the Feds at close range... it's scary diving into 100 points of plasma! Surprised

So far, I can only think of two ways to avoid suicide range while putting up a fight:
- "Peels" at range 8, firing normal loads and phaser-1, then veering off at high speed.
- Turning the photons off entirely, flying fast, and fighting with the superior Federation ph-1 suite.

Is it best to fly like a Klingon with "finesse" and try to knock down their front shields (are there any more finesse strategies as a Fed in this situation?), or just run in and hope for the best? Thanks for the help.
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to second a request for tactics in this regared, specifically against Lyrans Shocked .
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USS Enterprise
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 376
Location: Vulcan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I third!

But with my limited experience I recommend Saber Dancing at range 8, and Firing Standard load Photons and Phasers while piloting high speed.
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junior
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Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 803

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against a Hydran Fusion ship, there are two things to keep in mind -

- First is that in a duel you're probably not going to be facing a ship of the same size. Fusion ships by themselves tend to be fairly inexpensive (the Ranger CA is only 110 points, which makes it cost even less than the Fed Light Cruiser). And if fighters are included then things can get thrown even further out of whack depending on what choices are made (or get rebalanced) and you'll probably end up facing a smaller Hydran ship. As an example, earlier this week I flew a Hydran Mongol with five Stingers (150 points total) against a Klingon D5W (148 points). I had a war cruiser (technically 'medium cruiser') against my opponent's heavy cruiser. When dueling a Hydran Fusion ship, you need to be aware of this and figure out how it affects the battle.

- Hydrans have poor long-range phaser suites. A Mongol mounts two phaser-1s and four phaser-2s. The heavy cruisers are the same. The only real advantage of them is that they can all be fired FA (something that typically can't be done on a Federation ship - you need to centerline for that). Take advantage of the weaker Hydran phasers by keeping the range open and wearing your opponent down. And if you're feeling particularly daring, then remember that "long-range" for a Hydran Fusion Beam ship is pretty much anything outside of Range 4 (where the Gatling Phasers are effectively useless and the Fusion Beam does greatly reduced damage). If you're feeling gutsy, then you can close to range 5 and blast the Hydran with relative impunity. It's what happens on the impulse immediately following that you need to be concerned about...

The Hydran will probably be attempting to use the Stingers and the ship in concert to herd you into a position where you'll be forced to take an exchange of fire at range 3 or less (preferably MUCH less...). If you can avoid this, then you'll be okay. But if you get caught...
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RIS_Mace
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. Phasering at 4 to 8 hexes while avoiding closer ranges sounds like the way to go. Is range 15 too extreme for good effect?
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pmiller13
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not forget that the most important thing on your ship (as the Fen) is your photons. Any enemy must respect the damage they can do. Even a much stronger crunch race (for example plasma which can drop 100 points of plasma on you for little or no power if they are charged up). As a Fed playing against a stronger crunch race I would look for a way to deliver overload photons in the 4 to 8 range and still be able to keep the speed up to get away. Assuming a Fed CA against a heavy crunch opponent of the same point range (say 150 points) the ideal approach lets you be holding 4 overloads moving at base speed of 24. Some how you hit range 4 directly off your number 2 or 6 shield with your turn mode satisfied. The power layout here has you paying 24 for movement, 8 to hold already overloaded photons. This is 32 points of power out of 36 + 4 for batteries. This would leave 8 points of power leftover to fire phasers and to accelerate. At this angle and range a Fed Ca has 4 phasers barring, the average damage from these phasers is about 14 points of damage, even if only 3 photons hits )at full overload) this is 62 points of damage. A very impressive amount. This kind of damage followed by a turn out is very nasty. If you fired the 4 phasers then you have 4 points of power to accelerate away four times or you could accelerate 2 times and put two more phasers into the target through the down shield. The problem is that the above is the ideal situation for the Fed. Your opponent will be working to deny your the perfect shot. A plasma race will have plasmas running at you to hit you at 9 hexes and 5
hexes. To make you take damage before you can fire. A Hydran fusion boat will give you the shot at that range knowing they can chase you down and take a closer shot with the boat itself and fighters.
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terryoc
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, fighting Hydrans in a Fed is very non-historical. Gorns ditto... so they're not really balanced against each other.
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the Rommies or Lyrans? Those are historical and problematic.
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junior
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Romulans are non-historical as well. Romulan ships never visited the Hydran front (which, during the time when Romulans were involved in the General War and could safely travel past the Tholians, largely consisted of Lyrans attempting to bottle the Hydrans in with Klingon support).

Lyrans can be dealt with by a careful Hydran fusion ship. An ESG ram hits everything in the hex, which means that if you stack your fighters in the hex with you (or adjacent to you depending on where the fighters and the Lyran are located) the strength of the ram is greatly diluted. Then you blow the guy up for being reckless enough to move up next to you and all of your fighters. ESGs are the one time when launching your fighters too late for them to fire during the battle pass actually makes sense.

Hellbores take advantage of the "auto-hit" rule when ESGs are up. Or hit for full power if the ESGs aren't used. And Phaser-Gs at point blank range still hurt regardless of whether Fusion Beams or Hellbores are the primary heavy weapon on the ship.

And amazingly enough, the Fusion Beam and Phaser-G actually outrange the ESG...

(yes, I know that it's hard to believe that there's a weapon even shorter ranged than the Fusion Beam... Razz )

The LDR is another matter entirely, but they're not an historical opponent (there's a reason that the LDR has all of those Phaser-Gs to place on their ships).
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RIS_Mace
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Pinecone means flying Federation vs Lyran or Romulan. Against Romulans, pmiller13's overloaded battle run at range 4-8 sounds safe. Against Lyrans, it could work too; could you also hope to take out a Lyran at range 4 outside of their ESG range? I don't know whether it'd be better to hold for range 2 even if you'd take damage on the way in. That is, if the Lyran gives you range 2. Wink
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pinecone
Fleet Captain


Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was what I meant, thanks RIS_Mace Wink

And Junior, thanks as well. The Hydrans are one of vmy othere favorite races anyway. But for the record, there were a tiny few Hydran-Romulan battles.
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