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Flatfoot Fracas
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Mike
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Flatfoot Fracas Reply with quote

Ben and I had played a very quick scenario and had some time left in our session, so we decided to do a duel between two police ships. He chose the Kzinti police cutter and I chose the Federation police cutter. We have been using Middle Years ships almost exclusively lately, so we selected the police ships from that era.

The ships started 25 hexes apart. I took the photon pre-load option sans batteries and finished loading with 2 pts. of power. Both ships began heading more or less toward one another, but it was soon apparent that the Kzinti did not wish to close the range very much. Both ships were moving with baseline speeds of 16 and since both had the same turn mode, there was a lot of simultaneous revealing of what each ship would do on sub-pulses 2 and 4 of each impulse.

We had forgotten to bring our "decision cards" from Orion Attack, so we used 2 extra dice apiece to indicate our movement when a simultaneous decision had to be made. The two dice were different, so one of them served to show sideslip or not. The other showed the direction relative to the heading of the ship. We also used the technique of using just one Point of Turn marker to show hexes traveled for turn mode and for sideslip as described elsewhere here on the Forum.

Near the end of Turn 1 the Kzinti launched a spread of 3 drones from a distance of 5 hexes. He launched them facing 3 different directions hoping to create a wide spread he could follow. His idea was to make me use up my phasers if I wanted to charge to use the photon. On the last impulse he hit me with both his Ph-1s and a Ph-3 on Shield #6. I hit him with all 3 of my Ph-1s on his shield #2. Each of us used all our batteries for reinforcement and ended up taking just a couple of shield hits with no internals.

I realized he was not going to let me get very close for a photon shot, so I determined to risk a range 3-4 shot if I could get it. He began the turn by launching another full spread of drones, so now there were 6 of them (the most he could track) chasing me. He used the second launch as an "extended shield" to protect one of his flanks and continued his tactic of trying to keep away. I turned and feinted a retreat, but was hoping to draw the initial 3 drones together in space to make them easier to maneuver around. After a couple of impulses, that seemed to be working. I had pulled the drones toward the west side of the map and he allowed more separation between his ship and the drones to keep the range away from me. We traded phaser fire again near the end of the turn and each scored a net of 5 points of shield damage on forward oblique shields. At the end of the turn, I transferred 5 points of shielding from my #1 to my damaged shield because I figured I would need it more on the side than in the front.

On turn #3, continuing to hold the photon with 1 point of energy, I figured I really needed to close the distance and use that torpedo. I used acceleration a few times to get around the leading drones and then turned back on the Kzinti ship. Closing to a range of 4, I overloaded the photon to maximum and fired it along with all 3 of the Ph-1s. He returned fire with both his Ph-1s and a Ph-3. His fire did 9 points of damage on my shield #1 (knocking it completely down), but my photon and phasers hit with pretty good success causing 17 internals. A phaser and drone launcher were knocked out on his ship along with a bunch of inconsequential systems. He tried a Hit-and-Run Raid on my 360 degree Ph-1, but it failed. The remainder of the turn was spent with both of us accelerating and two hexes from one another. He tried desperately to get to a 1 hex range so he could tractor me and let the drones catch up. I had just enough power remaining to be able to accelerate for the rest of the turn, so he was unable to tractor me.

The 3 original drones went inert at the end of turn #3, so he launched two more on turn #4. He also closed the gap in pursuing me when I turned away to run and try to reload the photon.

At this point my situation was not too good, but neither was his. I had no #1 shield left and needed to run away and reload the photon. He was 2 hexes behind and had drones approaching to make maneuvering more challenging. Looking at the points totals, I figured the best thing to do was to disengage.

We figured he would be able to knock down one of my shields (he had repaired one of his phasers) and cause internals, so he would get 10% of my ship's value of 50 points (5 points for him). He would also get 25% of my ship's value for my disengagement, so that would be another 12.5 points for a total of 17.5 points. I would get 6.5 points for causing internals on him and 15 points for the point difference between the ships (my 50 vs. his 65), so I would end up with 21.5. Both percentages put each of us in the Marginal Victory category, but since my percentage was higher, it was a technical win for the Feds.

Observations and Lessons:

1. The Kzinti police cutter had to find a way to make those drones impact. It does not have a knockout punch (only 2 Ph-1s and 2 Ph-3s). The tractor was probably the only way to make that happen.

2. The Kzinti had more power and batteries and should use that advantage as much as possible.

3. The Kzinti had 6 Marines, but the Fed had only 2. Along with the power to use them, the Kzinti could perform more Hit-and-Run Raids and hope for better results. Another possibility would be to use all 3 transporters to try to capture the Fed ship outright. Unfortunately in this game, he lost transporters quickly.

4. If the Kzinti wants to keep away from the Fed, he can do it. He has more power and those pesky drones to force the Fed's movement options. If the Fed blasts the drones with phasers, then he would have fewer weapons to fire at the Kzinti ship.


All in all a very fun game. We could have continued and it would have been a *very* long game. As it was, we just didn't have that kind of time. Still, very enjoyable.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You only get the highest level of damage to your opponent. So, your opponent only gets the disengagement points (since it is higher than the internal damage points), not both the disengagement points and the internal damage points.

Yes, that means the Kzinti would basically have to either cripple the Fed while receiving no damage, or outright destroy (or capture) the Fed while taking damage, to win. But that's what happens when the "larger" force is 30% "bigger".
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wedge_hammersteel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont have my rulebook with me but isnt there a detailed way to determine who has to move first?

1. check speed (slower speed has to move first)
2. check turn modes (worse turn mode has to move first)
3. then size/class (larger size/class has to move first)
4. then check BPV (higher BPV has to move first)

Did I mix some home brew in there?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that is definitely brewed ...

The rule is (2A5). Assuming we are only talking about ships, the determination is:
1. Slower ship moves first.
2. If same speed, worse turn mode (A, B, etc) moves first.
3. If both are the same, write and reveal.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, MJ, for that reminder about the victory conditions! It is amazing that we have both played FC many, many times and still sometimes forget the simplest things.

If it had been part of a tournament or campaign (and not just a pick-up game), I'd have been tempted to simply say the ships were equal because they were both police cutters and let it go at that. Then I wouldn't have disengaged and we would've recorded our positions for a continuation on a later date.

There is no way that the Kzinti police cutter is 15 points "better" than the Fed version. The 65 points of the Kzinti is only a few points less than a Fed FF. There is no way in a supernova that a Kzinti police cutter could stand up to a Fed FF.

I know...I know...we've all seen these discussions before about the point values and how they are rather subjective and dependent on so many considerations. Sorry for even bringing it up...well, not completely sorry...( Wink )
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is another lesson here: the middle years F-POL is bogus. It is like the War Eagles. It's a weapon with a little bit of ship around it. Only this time the weapon is a photon! Sad There is very little chance of hitting (Probably only 50-50 unless your opponent wants you to win), and it won't do nearly as much as a Pl-R. All that energy could easily be for zip.
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Hod K'el
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
I dont have my rulebook with me but isnt there a detailed way to determine who has to move first?

1. check speed (slower speed has to move first)
2. check turn modes (worse turn mode has to move first)
3. then size/class (larger size/class has to move first)
4. then check BPV (higher BPV has to move first)

Did I mix some home brew in there?


I like this better as it makes the differences more acute.
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the report. Nice to see two small ships duking it out. Have to imagine that lots of these engagements took place all over the border and weren't really reported.

Looks like the Kzinti got a bit too close, or relied on his drones as a shield a bit too much. Though it looks like you did a great job outrunning some of them to try and level the playing field.
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junior
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinecone wrote:
I think there is another lesson here: the middle years F-POL is bogus. It is like the War Eagles. It's a weapon with a little bit of ship around it. Only this time the weapon is a photon! Sad There is very little chance of hitting (Probably only 50-50 unless your opponent wants you to win), and it won't do nearly as much as a Pl-R. All that energy could easily be for zip.


Remember that Police Ships aren't designed with the idea of fighting other ships. They're designed with the intent of intimidating freighter captains. Even the smallest Orion Raider - the LR - should be able to consistantly defeat a lone police ship.

And if you think that the Fed Pol is bad, you should try the Hydran Gendarme without the Stingers (according to SFB, Gendarme sans Stingers is the typical configuration).
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

junior wrote:

And if you think that the Fed Pol is bad, you should try the Hydran Gendarme without the Stingers (according to SFB, Gendarme sans Stingers is the typical configuration).


But the mini looks really nice... Rolling Eyes
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, at least the Fed POL's hull design has a good legacy for the...


...for a faction in a place I might talk a lot about here, despite their not making it over to FC just yet.


Ahem.
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junior
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
junior wrote:

And if you think that the Fed Pol is bad, you should try the Hydran Gendarme without the Stingers (according to SFB, Gendarme sans Stingers is the typical configuration).


But the mini looks really nice... Rolling Eyes


ALL Hydran minis look nice! Though the Ranger/Horseman/Mongol hull-type does get a bit old... Too bad yet another design couldn't have been used for the light/medium cruiser hull.
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Wolverin61
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
junior wrote:

And if you think that the Fed Pol is bad, you should try the Hydran Gendarme without the Stingers (according to SFB, Gendarme sans Stingers is the typical configuration).


But the mini looks really nice... Rolling Eyes


Reminds me of a Dustbuster. Not that there's anything wrong with that....
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

junior wrote:
pinecone wrote:
I think there is another lesson here: the middle years F-POL is bogus. It is like the War Eagles. It's a weapon with a little bit of ship around it. Only this time the weapon is a photon! Sad There is very little chance of hitting (Probably only 50-50 unless your opponent wants you to win), and it won't do nearly as much as a Pl-R. All that energy could easily be for zip.


Remember that Police Ships aren't designed with the idea of fighting other ships. They're designed with the intent of intimidating freighter captains. Even the smallest Orion Raider - the LR - should be able to consistantly defeat a lone police ship.

And if you think that the Fed Pol is bad, you should try the Hydran Gendarme without the Stingers (according to SFB, Gendarme sans Stingers is the typical configuration).


That's why I want the Three-Nacel Police Cutter. It could beat an LR with good rolls.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolverin61 wrote:
Scoutdad wrote:
junior wrote:

And if you think that the Fed Pol is bad, you should try the Hydran Gendarme without the Stingers (according to SFB, Gendarme sans Stingers is the typical configuration).


But the mini looks really nice... Rolling Eyes


Reminds me of a Dustbuster. Not that there's anything wrong with that....


Ahhh man, now I have to go get another one and paint it as a you-know-what... Rolling Eyes
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