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Solar system set up

 
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wedge_hammersteel
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject: Solar system set up Reply with quote

The following are just some curious ponderings that I have tonight.

If you take into consideration our solar system: sun, earth and the other planets, would one federation starbase be assigned for the entire system or would our solar system likely have more than one or is our solar sytem too small to have a starbase?

If fed police ships were assigned to our solar system, would a squadron be assigned to patrol the entire system or just one planet? I am trying to get a feel for the roaming range of police ships and the assignments that a squadron might be tasked with.

What would Earth likely have in orbit? Defense satelites, base station, battle station? I am trying to get a feel of what static defenses a planet would likely have and what a solar sytem might have.

Are commercial platforms more commonly assigned to a planet or a system?

How many monitors would be assigned to our sytem?

Thanks in advance for helping me with this.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: Solar system set up Reply with quote

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
The following are just some curious ponderings that I have tonight.

I can answer based on my knowledge of F&E and how these systems work in that game. It may not be the answers you're lookign for... but then again, it is how these systems function in the "real world" of the SFU.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
If you take into consideration our solar system: sun, earth and the other planets, would one federation starbase be assigned for the entire system or would our solar system likely have more than one or is our solar sytem too small to have a starbase?

The F&E game comes with Capital assault charts , for use in attacks on the capital systems...
Sol for the Federation...
Klinshai for the Klingons...
At the start of the game, there is one starbase assigned to each capital hex. The rules will allow you to build additional SBs but they cannot be located in the same system.
Let's take the Federation for example. The Federation capital hex has four major systems in it (remember, each F&E hex has hundreds of stars / solar systems in them).
It's assumed that the major shipyard is located at Sol... so the starbase is there too. You could build a second, or even a third (or more) starbase in the hex... but they'd be located in the other systems. They would be considered close enough to provide support (in the form of fighters / PFs being sent ot help defend against an enemy incursion.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
If fed police ships were assigned to our solar system, would a squadron be assigned to patrol the entire system or just one planet? I am trying to get a feel for the roaming range of police ships and the assignments that a squadron might be tasked with.

Based on the "fluff" from various sources, I'd hazard a guess that each inhabited system would have a police ship assigned for patrol of that system... and there'd be a Police Flagship / Police CV assigned to each F&E hex for anti-piracy patrols and such.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
What would Earth likely have in orbit? Defense satelites, base station, battle station? I am trying to get a feel of what static defenses a planet would likely have and what a solar sytem might have.

DefSATS, definitely. Starbase - probably... minefield, yes... there would probably be a base station orbiting one or two of the other inhabited planes, as well as DefSATS. [DefSATs are cheap.. place 'em and forget 'em] There would be ComPlats located at various locations... around Mars... in the Asteroid Field... in orbit of Uranus, harvesting hydrogen for fuel... Ceres and some of the larger asteroids (and many of he moons orbiting inhabited planes) would have ground-based defense stations on them... phaser bases, bomber bases, and even heavy weapons bases.
The outer edges of the solar system would be occupied by long-range sensor platforms and communication relays.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
Are commercial platforms more commonly assigned to a planet or a system?

Thy would be assigned to anyplace there is the potential for commerce... LaGrange points... hydrogen-rich planets... heavy-metal asteroids... colonized planets... I expect that most of these would be operated by large corporations as profit-making enterprises.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
How many monitors would be assigned to our sytem?

According to F&E, you can only have one per planet until every planet has one, then you can begin to add two to each planet... Although there is the caveat that the capital system can only have one until every other hex with a planetary system has one - so Sol would only have one monitor... and that would usually be assigned to Sol.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
Thanks in advance for helping me with this.

ehhh... I probably created more questions than I answered... but you're welcome, just the same.
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wedge_hammersteel
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t think about researching F&E. Is there a "starter book" like "First Missions?"

So in the Sol capital hex you can have 4 starbases due to the 4 major systems. One system contains our solar-system among hundreds of others but since the game is terra-centric there will be a starbase in our system most likely very close to Earth.

Having a shipyard close to the starbase makes sense too.

Next, you have a police flagship for the Sol capital hex with one regular police ship usually assigned to one solar-system. So there could be quite a few police ships given the number of solar-systems in a major system. Or is it one regular police ship per major system not solar system? Police ships could be temporarily shifted to assist other solar-systems to deal with influx of criminal activity.

The commercial platform and monitor part makes sense so no additional questions.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
I didn’t think about researching F&E. Is there a "starter book" like "First Missions?"

Nope. No starter book... I'm not even sure if you could do a starter book...

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
So in the Sol capital hex you can have 4 starbases due to the 4 major systems. One system contains our solar-system among hundreds of others but since the game is terra-centric there will be a starbase in our system most likely very close to Earth.

I honestly can't remember there being a hard and fast limit to how many SBs can be in a hex.
The practical limit in the game comes from economic production (Starbases are expensive and take a while to construct) and the dual-starbase rule (which limits how much support two - or more - SBs in the same hex can provide each other). Usually, if you're going to build a SB, it's much better to construct it where you need it, rather than add additional SBs to an already defended system (but there are exceptions... the Kzinti Marquis province being one)
Of course, the Gorns have three capital hexes and the Romulans two... so they start with a SB in each of those hexes...

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
Having a shipyard close to the starbase makes sense too.

Good!

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
Next, you have a police flagship for the Sol capital hex with one regular police ship usually assigned to one solar-system. So there could be quite a few police ships given the number of solar-systems in a major system. Or is it one regular police ship per major system not solar system? Police ships could be temporarily shifted to assist other solar-systems to deal with influx of criminal activity.

The SFU Starship Name Database lists the names of about 2 dozen Police Ships and ends wih the comment "...and about 130 others." Based on the size of the FEderation on the F&E map... you'd have multiple POLs per F&E hex. How they are actually distributed is ...vauge... for lack of a more definite term.
I'd assume one per Starbase... one per major inhabited system... X% tasked with convoy excort duty... X% on anti-piracy patrols... X% in dry-dock for maintenance, upgrades, and repairs... and X-1 (X being the number needed) held in reserve to respond to immediate requirements.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
The commercial platform and monitor part makes sense so no additional questions.

Then either I'm slipping... or I explained this one too well.
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hedgehobbit
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
Nope. No starter book... I'm not even sure if you could do a starter book...

I've always wondered how F&E does starship combat. I think you could make a small map with a few counters (print your own, of course) to replay a small attack. I've seen this sort of thing before with other wargames. Of course, the question is not "if" you could do it but whether it would be worth the time and effort to do so.


Aaron
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Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would Luna be about 35 hexes from Earth on a FC/SFB map?
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Would Luna be about 35 hexes from Earth on a FC/SFB map?

more or less. The distance is roughly 384,000 kilometers (on average). Since FC hexes are 10,000 kilometers across, then the moon would be 38.4 hexes away... although at perigee that distance drops to 356,000 kM, or 35.6 hexes.

I don't think the Space Police will come arrest you if you play a scenario and have the moon sitting 35 hexes from Terra.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hedgehobbit wrote:
Scoutdad wrote:
Nope. No starter book... I'm not even sure if you could do a starter book...

I've always wondered how F&E does starship combat. I think you could make a small map with a few counters (print your own, of course) to replay a small attack. I've seen this sort of thing before with other wargames. Of course, the question is not "if" you could do it but whether it would be worth the time and effort to do so.
Aaron

F&E combat uses a simplified, abstract system for resolution. Each unit has an Attack factor and a Defense factor (often these are the same, but not always). Each side forms a battle line... this battle line is determined by the Command Rating of your flagship. No ship can command more than it's CR in other units... this means a DN led line will usually have the full 13 ships in it, while a DW led line may only have 5 ships.
You addthe Attack Factors of your entire battle line... this is your Combat Potential.
both sides select a BIR (battle intensity rating) from 1 ot 4... this represents how hard they press thier attacks. The BIR's are totaled (giving a number from 2 to Cool and each side rolls a D6. Add that total to the BIR... then modifiers for Electronic Warfare, VBIR, Admirals, etc are added. The total is then cross-referenced on the conbat chart to give a percentage. Multiply your ComPot by that percentage to determine damage done to the other side.
Ships are crippled / destroyed by totalling Defensive Value to reach the damage done... other rules modify this... Directed Damge, Maulers, etc...
But that's the gist of how it's done.
You then havethe option to retreat or fight another combat round...

Since many F&E combats involve hundreds of ships on each side and represent the various ebbs and flows of combat occuring throughout the six-month game turn - it's kinda hard to fight them out usig any system other than F&E. I've heard of groups deciding to play each battle usig SFB - but that could take a lifetime to finish.
It might be fun to pick one small battle from each game turn and fight it using SFB or FC... but that would be the extent I'd want to go to...
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Crimin
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continuing to veer off of the original topic, a while back I played a version of the SFB Admiral's Campaign but instead of using SFB or FC to resolve the combats, I resolved each fight as an F&E combat hex. Made for an interesting diversion.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to SFB Module R8, a number of the major Federation member planets have one or more National Guard ships.


These are Early Years ships which have been upgraded in terms of their weapons and other systems, but are still somewhat outdated compared to their Middle Years and General War era successors.


(I wonder - when the time comes for advanced technology ships to become more widespread in the various navies, would that mean the National Guards would get TL12-era ships also?)
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Dan Ibekwe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a similar theme I came up with this a while ago;

How about standardised planets? With set numbers of target locations and defending marines/fighters/DEFSATS/ground-based weapons?
The smallest would be lightly-defended outposts (a suitable target for a lone frigate), then larger and more heavily armed colonies (worth a cruiser), major worlds (a small fleet), and homeworlds (an armada).
In SFB you can do this by setting a points total and buying defences upto that limit; in FC this could be simplified to a set number of optional weapons, their number increasing at each level.
This would basically be a formalisation of SPP's Colony Evolution article for SFB. It would give an 'off-the-peg' objective for one-off games, and they could be customised to represent specific individual worlds for scenarios or 'historical' campaigns.
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Kahuna
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Ibekwe wrote:
On a similar theme I came up with this a while ago;

How about standardised planets? With set numbers of target locations and defending marines/fighters/DEFSATS/ground-based weapons?
The smallest would be lightly-defended outposts (a suitable target for a lone frigate), then larger and more heavily armed colonies (worth a cruiser), major worlds (a small fleet), and homeworlds (an armada).
In SFB you can do this by setting a points total and buying defences upto that limit; in FC this could be simplified to a set number of optional weapons, their number increasing at each level.
This would basically be a formalisation of SPP's Colony Evolution article for SFB. It would give an 'off-the-peg' objective for one-off games, and they could be customised to represent specific individual worlds for scenarios or 'historical' campaigns.


I really like house rule ideas and use them often myself, but don't we already have these fleets and fortifications in place in the F&E game? Or are you looking at just a customized fun way to set up your own "Admiral's Game"? I have enjoyed reading about various campaigns and the things that you guys are doing, to be certain.
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Dan Ibekwe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Solar system set up Reply with quote

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
The following are just some curious ponderings that I have tonight.

If you take into consideration our solar system: sun, earth and the other planets, would one federation starbase be assigned for the entire system or would our solar system likely have more than one or is our solar sytem too small to have a starbase?


* My own thoughts, not in any way canon; Starbases are very major installations. One per sector usually, not more than one even in a homeworld system

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
If fed police ships were assigned to our solar system, would a squadron be assigned to patrol the entire system or just one planet? I am trying to get a feel for the roaming range of police ships and the assignments that a squadron might be tasked with.


* Police ships are warp-powered starships, and their patrols wouldn't necessarily be limited to just one system. One could travel from Mercury to Neptune in a matter of minutes.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
What would Earth likely have in orbit? Defense satelites, base station, battle station? I am trying to get a feel of what static defenses a planet would likely have and what a solar sytem might have.


*Functionally equivalent to a starbase, although things like shipyards and DEFSATs might be spread over many separate facilities rather than one huge base.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
Are commercial platforms more commonly assigned to a planet or a system?


*COMPLATS provide storage and interface facilities for the planet they orbit. If there was more than one colony in a system, each might have its own COMPLAT. Rival corporations or governments might operate multiple COMPLATs over the same planet.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
How many monitors would be assigned to our sytem?


*Not necessarily any. Monitors are mobile substitutes for bases to provide temporary defences in border regions. With homeworld-level orbital defences and major fleet units permanently present, Earth wouldn't really need monitors.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:
Thanks in advance for helping me with this.


*You're welcome

[MOD: Reformatted post so I could read it better.]
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Dan Ibekwe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Kahuna - I'm thinking specifically for FC. I don't play F&E, and I'm suggesting a simpler more steamlined version of what's available in SFB.
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