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New Light Cruiser and Star Trek II
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Wolverin61
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 497
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeBurke wrote:
I got a classic SSD here, I was told it was one that was never going to be used, but in my SFB universe, anything conjectural is real, (So Module C4 races are not compute simulators they are real and the Feds did get PF's)
Yes I am on that side of the mirror. I have an SSD for a Fed NCL that has the top thing on it as does the Miranda class NCL, just like the movie. It has 2 forward Photons and two aft photons. Everything else is the same as the regular NCL. I've flown it, it's not a bad ship because the photon firing arcs are FH, RH, the ship's design makes it powerful in all directions.
But it only fires two photons fwd and two aft so there are some trade offs. It's fun to fly though, I use the standard NCL counter for it.


I guess it wouldn't be a bad ship, with FH/RH photons. I had one that somebody did, but the photons were FA/RA iirc.

It's kinda funny that this came up, just last night I was reading about the megaphaser 'wings' in Module P6:Galactic Smorgasbord.
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SWO_Daddy
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Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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Location: Stuttgart, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My SFB take on the Miranda, from 8 years ago: http://jgray-sfb.com/SSDs/Federation/fcmsquad.gif
This is literally one of the oldest SSDs on my website. Not a serious proposal, but from what we saw in the Movie, my take on the ships. Keep in mind, I see the TWoK Enterprise as a CB or CX.
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MikeBurke
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Megaphasers? Mauler firing arcs? Do these come beween a phaser 1 and an phaser 4? Interesting. I like the groups of 3 though.
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Wolverin61
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWO_Daddy wrote:
... I see the TWoK Enterprise as a CB or CX.


I've always thought of the TMP Enterprise as a CX myself. And of course, we all know the Enterprise-A is a CX.
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MikeBurke
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There really wasn't any difference between the TMP Enterprise and the Enterprise-A, other than they fixed the wormhole problem. I have always thought those were CXs as well. Refitted. What I don't get is what they did in this last movie. The Enterpise looks like it used the same shell for "TOS Doomsday Machine" as the template for the warp nacelles. since when could you use the interconnecting dorsal as a ski slope right off the back of the ship. Not your father's Oldsmobile that's for sure.
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Wolverin61
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeBurke wrote:
Megaphasers? Mauler firing arcs? Do these come beween a phaser 1 and an phaser 4? Interesting. I like the groups of 3 though.


Yes. And I think that CM is the SSD I was thinking about, although I think it was on a sheet by itself.
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeBurke wrote:
There really wasn't any difference between the TMP Enterprise and the Enterprise-A, other than they fixed the wormhole problem.


I think it was the Book for ST-V it mention that "A" was actually a rechristening of the USS Tahoe (Or something like that) it was the competting Transwarp Test Bed so yes there was a pretty sizeable difference between "TMP" and "A"
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MikeBurke
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had never heard that because I had thought Excelsior was supposed to be the test bed for transwarp, hence when the Federation's plans on the Excelsior failed (it wasn't just Scotty's putting the batteries in upside down) they made it go from the experimental NX-2000 and gave it a Naval Construction Contract - NCC-2000 They moved out Captain Styles an gave the command to Hikaru Sulu. Honestly, I don't think the Nacelles on the Constitution II class cruiser would have been up for the job of achieving transwarp anyway. The Federation chose not to go after reaching the transwarp barrier because once you reach Warp 10 the transwarp would make it so you could be everywhere all at once. That was information that was brought back by Captain Janeway in her battles with the Borg all those years later. Almost 80-100 years had passed before the Federation would even reconsider any plans for transwarp.
For me, my favorite time frame is the one were the Constitution Class cruiser reigns supreme. We know the Feds have a knack for renaming ships. Just look at all the ship classes that were added additionally to the original ones since FJ's Tech manual. Many of the Naval Construction Contracts were reassigned and some were never really even awarded though Star Fleet Command had authorized them.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolverin61 wrote:
I've always thought of the TMP Enterprise as a CX myself. And of course, we all know the Enterprise-A is a CX.

Same here. Also, the computer game Starfleet Command confuses things by having many of the Fed CL class ships [NCD, NCC, NCL etc.] represented by the Miranda ship model.
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Wolverin61
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dal Downing wrote:
MikeBurke wrote:
There really wasn't any difference between the TMP Enterprise and the Enterprise-A, other than they fixed the wormhole problem.


I think it was the Book for ST-V it mention that "A" was actually a rechristening of the USS Tahoe (Or something like that) it was the competting Transwarp Test Bed so yes there was a pretty sizeable difference between "TMP" and "A"


In Mr. Scott's Guide To The Enterprise, the USS Enterprise-A was originally named the USS Ti-Ho.
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SWO_Daddy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, and Scotty's Guide also said the 1701-A had a more compact transwarp drive than NX-2000. Of course, as so often happens, Trek eventually found a way to contradict itself! Rolling Eyes

If you buy into what Mr. Scott's Guide has to say, and compare that to the SFU/SFB/FC ships, it makes sense that the ST:TMP Enterprise might be a CB (a stud ship compared to the old CA) and the 1701-A is a CX. Module X1 seems to back that up calling the 1701-A a CX. But, if you think Scott's guide is bunk, then its pretty easy to see the TMP 1701 as a CX. Just depends on perspective I think.

Edit: Oh, and yay, I'm a LTJG now. How many more posts before I get to my real life rank? Cool
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djdood
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got a way to go on the silly post-count thing Cmdr Gray.

How is Deutchland treating you, BTW?
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SWO_Daddy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Germany is treating me pretty well. Trying to balance the beer and sausage consuption with enough PT to keep the weight down...not sure its working.

--------------------------------

Back to the topic though (can you all tell I'm bored at work)...

On thing I found with the rear firing heavy weapons, at least in SFB (which is my normal poison), is that they tend to become damage pads. If anybody remembers the Doomslayer from CL3, it had a rear firing photon, and it could cause some interesting and likely unintended effects:

1. The ship retained full forward firepower (added some actually), in addition to the rear firing weapon, but it didn't add a comensurate amount of power to feed everything. So if you wanted to really be able to use the rear firng weapon, particularly something as power hungry as a photon, the ship slowed to a crawl.

2. Because DAC hits on heavy weapons are non-directional, the rear firing weapon became a damage pad for the forward firing ones. As a result, the ship could often wait to fire until after its opponent, without fear of losing hard hitting weapons in the alpha strike. Shooting the Doomslayer with a medium range volley was often just enough to kill that rear firing torpedo and convince her to come run you over with 5 heavy weapons while your guns where dry.

When flying a ship with rear facing photons, you get stuck in a quandry. Do you spend a bunch of power overloading the thing only to get it shot off before you can turn it to fire? Will it be in range? Will it have any chance at all to hit the same shield the forward alpha strike did? It can be an awesome deterent to prevent somebody from chasing you, but it can also be a huge power suck. In SFB, in the few cases where I've flow a ship with rear firing photons (the Doomslayer, BB, DWH), I've often only left them loaded as standards or proximities at the start of the battle, and then left them unloaded for most of the duration. Without a lot of other rear firing weapons to use with them, they sort of become little more than a single gun for sniping.

When I did the CM years ago, I tried to cut back on the number of the forward photons to balance the effects I mentioned above (I used the DWH as a model there), but the ships still has much the same problem. It is very tempting to start using the megaphasers at medium ranges, but that starts to create an every-turn power drain that rear firing weapons photons can exasporate. The ship works OK (I've used it in a couple JFF games), and it does have the right feel, but can be a bit unwieldy. If you can get those rear firing photons to matter, its all good. But if you can't, you start wishing you just had a good 'ol NCL.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's one thing about ST:II that has always struck me as odd. The Reliant out-guns the Enterprise in a big, big way.

Even if the "roll bar" phasers are not "mega-phasers" (as they are often labeled in fanion) she still has equivalent phaser count to the Enterprise, along with double the photon tubes (with two of them facing aft, something the Enterprise completely lacks).

If those roll-bar weapons are indeed "mega-phasers" fed directly from the warp plasma conduits (as shown on some blueprints), then they are very formidable weapons (additional heavy weapons IMO) and her advantage over Enterprise was huge.

Where the power for all those guns would come from on an SFB'ized version is beyond me Wink

Kind of gives me a new respect for Kirk's recovery from getting caught with his pants down. He's lucky Reliant didn't blow away Enterprise in that first volley (although, I'm pretty sure Kahn wanted a moment to gloat and held back). Experience certainly counts (as does having a Vulcan along with you).
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If comparing SWO-daddy's SFB Miranda to a CX, I think the CX would win. It would be close, but thge CX would win.
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