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Arming the Orion Dreadnaught
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wedge_hammersteel
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Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 579
Location: Lafayette, LA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quote from the ADB Store, “The biggest pirate ship of all time, the Orion DN has more guns, more power, and more sheer terror than any other pirate ships (and more than most other ships). On a good day, it can wreck a battleship!”
I guess I wasn’t having a good day.

Plasma Ds would be the best anti-drone defense.

I did a “all or nothing” frontal attack on the B-10. It has all those disruptors and the 8 drones.

I tried to fend of his second wave of drones but didn’t have the fire power so I tractored them. Then he hit me point blank with all his phaser ones. My shield collapsed and I took massive internals. He would hit a tractor and I would take 12 more points, then as I was charting damage from that drone, he would take out another and it cascaded into destruction.

“To sabre-dance at medium/long range a mix of disruptors and hellbores might work.”

I would be willing to try this. I would never get close to him again.
I never doubled my engines because the stealth coating did provide some help. The “roll a 6 and the drone misses” rule for the Orion Dreadnaught helped too.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2915
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, don't forget the quote in the ADB store is for the mini and probably written from an SFB-perspective.

In SFB, with the unlimited ability to "brick" shields with reinforcement (and the DN's ridiculous amount of discretionary power when engines are doubled), it really could take on a BB and win. The BB can't kill what it can't touch.

In FedCom, with the battery-limited shield reinforcement, one of the Orion's great tricks was removed (closing the exploit putt them in the balance they should have had).
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Hod K'el
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Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Lafayette LA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are looking at this all wrong DJ...yes, the Orion lost that ability, but so did the B-10. He got thru the B-10 shield twice with the 10 point bleed thru rule, but could not muster enough firepower to do massive damage that was required to hurt (read this as take a great deal of damage) the B-10 internally.

Additionally, the B-10 can play the Sabre Dance all day long with the ODN and still keep kicking back, especially with the stealth bonus, which really helps at range 15 [noticed that last night]. The option for the Orion is to close and die [which he did last night].

The bottom line was the drone waves that the Orion could not handle; I think this was due to drone racks in the wings instead of PL-D racks, thus his statement of which I agree. The other problem was (2) Photons and a PL-G. The PL-G took too long to arm and the Photons did too, one of which missed when he tried to kill the B-10. I think he will try something else later, but right now, I really think he is going to work on range 15 weaponry...like all disruptos in the forward option mounts.

Personally, I would go with five disruptors and a PH-G in the B mount with four PL-D in the wing mounts.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing the mid-range game does mean that 6 disruptors is a decent choice. (Cool backup choice: Vudar ion cannons.) Throwing in one or two hellbores in place of a disruptor is not a bad idea, as that let you exploit non-exposed shields. However, it is a dangerous choice, as you only get two, and it messes with your consistent every-turn punch with the disruptors. They might work well with the ion cannons, though.

If you want to get close and personal, though, photons seem like the best choice to me. The key thing about using photons (or even ion cannons) is that you just need to remember to use your EM on the off turn. Getting the stealth bonus AND EM helps keep you alive very nicely.

Two other points:

1) Pl-D sound like a great idea for drone defense, but remember that you will run out of Pl-D before he runs out of drones. They are good for one double-shot of drones, but after that you are empty. And he still has half his drone load left.

2) The B10 will trade internals with the Orion DN all day. It can repair faster and has way more internals. The DN has to do all it can to keep its internals to a minimum.
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USS Enterprise
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a limit of 1 Hellbore per ship for Orions.
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Sgt_G
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a limit of 1 Hellbore per ship for Orions.

Mostly true, but the BCH can have two and the DN can have three. And smaller ships can't have any.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USS Enterprise wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a limit of 1 Hellbore per ship for Orions.

I think you got that from this thread: http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2396

...and although Mike says that HB use is much more restricted in FC, I don't think that's what he meant in reply to my question [I was the OP on that thread].

What I was meaning was that it seems that most Orion ships, when you look at the weapons list in (5L1), are only listed to carry one Hellbore, simply because only one of the weapons mounts - usually 'A' - is listed as being able to carry a Hellbore. For example, the Battle Raider [Sqn scale] can have the same weapons in A as in B and C, except for the heavier plasma, the ESG and the Hellbore. It's talored that way to restrict the more powerful weapons.

For the Orion dreadnought, however, all three (i.e. each of the) mounts A, B and C can hold a hellbore or an ESG. Of course, the restriction on double mountings may make this superfluous for the ESG (and the PPD), but it still remains that the O-DN could feasibly carry three Plasma-G or Hellbores in mounts A, B and C given the option mounts list in (5L1).

If I'm wrong in this, I will no doubt be corrected very soon Smile
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Hod K'el
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Playing the mid-range game does mean that 6 disruptors is a decent choice. (Cool backup choice: Vudar ion cannons.)


That's not a bad idea...

mjwest wrote:
Throwing in one or two hellbores in place of a disruptor is not a bad idea, as that let you exploit non-exposed shields. However, it is a dangerous choice, as you only get two, and it messes with your consistent every-turn punch with the disruptors.


And the every turn punch is what he is going for.

mjwest wrote:
If you want to get close and personal, though, photons seem like the best choice to me. The key thing about using photons (or even ion cannons) is that you just need to remember to use your EM on the off turn. Getting the stealth bonus AND EM helps keep you alive very nicely.


But this will negate the every turn punch which he discovered he needs when going against a B-10.

mjwest wrote:
Two other points:

1) Pl-D sound like a great idea for drone defense, but remember that you will run out of Pl-D before he runs out of drones. They are good for one double-shot of drones, but after that you are empty. And he still has half his drone load left.

2) The B10 will trade internals with the Orion DN all day. It can repair faster and has way more internals. The DN has to do all it can to keep its internals to a minimum.


Very true! And the ODN still has to get through the shields before it can really start doing internals. So, that leaves two questions: 1) other than disruptors, what can do decent damage at range 15 AND fire every turn, and 2) what can shoot down 12 drones that are closing or impacting on a ship? Remember, you have 4 weapon option mounts for this.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod K'el wrote:
So, that leaves two questions: 1) other than disruptors, what can do decent damage at range 15 AND fire every turn, and 2) what can shoot down 12 drones that are closing or impacting on a ship? Remember, you have 4 weapon option mounts for this.


1) Nothing. If you want to fire every single turn and fire at range, you are forced to use disruptors.

Now, if you don't need the "every turn" thing, then the hellbores and ion cannons can enter the picture. They are both accurate weapons.

2) The Pl-D are probably your best bet to shoot down all of those drones, as long as there is some distance between the drone launcher and yourself. (Since the Pl-D can only be fired in the Offensive Fire Phase, you can't fire against the drones until the impulse after they are fired.) They are probably the best choice to shoot down the wave of 12+4. Just be aware that they are empty after that.

Which, BTW, is another advantage of the two-turn arming weapons. Using the two-turn weapons forces you to take that off turn, so you have to run away and reload at least some of your Pl-D while you rearm your heavy weapons.

The other reason the turn-turn arming weapons don't hurt is that it might actually encourage the BB to move. Having that lumbering hulk moving is only going to help because it turns so badly. Make it gain speed, and you actually have a chance to out-flank it. It will still smack you with a handful of disruptors, but it is still better than a full frontal assault. Just don't get greedy, or he will take the risk on the HET. Smile
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