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Vulcan Ships
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PanzerTC
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 32
Location: DC Area

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:58 pm    Post subject: Vulcan Ships Reply with quote

Hi,

I understand the Paramount legal stance and the restrictions/limitations upon what can and can not be produced. (At least I think I do from discussions/postings.)

Staying within TOS - is there the possibility of Vulcan ships being produced a Race/Faction for Fleets to be produced. With the most likely use being allies to the Federation - but sculpted with the Vulcan culture in mind.

I can see wonderful research vessels and ships of war. Names like Logic, Philosophy, Pure Science, Researcher, etc. (Of course in Vulcan.)

Are there any other races that someone can think of that this might pertain/be applied to other that the Vulcans?
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"In planning, never a useless move; in strategy, no step taken in vain."
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pre-Starfleet Vulcan ships already exist in the SFB Y1 and Y2 modules.
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PanzerTC
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 12 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood,

Thanks - I'll have to add them to the buy list.

Being new (and waiting eagerly for stuff to arrive) I'm just so excited about this system.

I love learning new games almost as much as I like teaching my friends to play the games I already love.

The feedback on this site is awesome!

Follow-up question - are miniatures available for them - or is scratch-building the option right now?
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PanzerTC

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djdood
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's been talk of minis for them, but to the best of my knowledge nothing is underway yet (at least not by any of the sculptors I know).

I would think they would be of a lower priority though.

Things going into FedCom trump anything else, for the most part. Anything that goes into FedCom almost always gets a mini (unless an existing mini will work for it), to fill the Squadron Boxes.

Ships get added to SFB all the time and don't always get a mini. Sometimes they do years later. It all depends on what SVC wants to see added/marketed and what the sculptors can do/want to do.
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PanzerTC
Lieutenant JG


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood,

Thanks for the information and explanation.
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Jeff Cope
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Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've wondered about the absence of races such as the Andorians or Tellarites.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Star Fleet Battles is by-and-large, a tactical level wargame. There are many "Federation" ships included in SFB (and hence, in Federation Commander). The Andorians and Tellerites (and by extension the Vulcans, the Alpha Centaurians, and every other Federation member species) is represented by those Federation ships.

If you really want to see the Andorians and the Tellerites, then you need to try the Prime Directive role playing game (also from ADB). The Federation sourcebook (due out in 2010) will have all the background info needed to flesh those (and other) races out in a RPG setting.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow-on from scoutdad's reply -
If you want to see the Vulcan, Andorian, etc. ships, currently they are only in Star Fleet Battles (Module Y and Y2). These are all "pre-Federation" ships (everybody disbanded their national fleets when the integrated Star Fleet was formed). The remaining "national" ships were re-tasked with National Guard duty for the constituent Federation member worlds and their colonies. IIRC, a token few served into the General War period, but were very old and obsolete by that point.

If folks want to see these member-planets ships in Federation Commander, they would need to convince SVC (the Game's Overworked Designer) that there is a demand and market for it.

Personally, I'd much rather see the late General War ideas brought in first, then look backwards to things like SFB-moduleY stuff.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The National ships were all pretty much retired by the Middle Years. There were no National ships left around by the time of the General War.

As 'dad said, the Vulcans, Andorians, Alpha Centaurans, Rigellians, loyal Orions, Cygnans, and Tellarites are all present in the existing fleet, as the Federation uses a single set of designs for the United Star Fleet.

If you want the rules necessary to use (most) of the ships in SFB Modules Y1 and Y2, you will need to get Captain's Log 39 and Captain's Log Supplemental 39 (which is a free PDF download). They have FC versions of the EY rules. (They also have some sample ships, but they are just various YCAs, not the ships you are looking for.) But you will be using SFB SSDs, not FC ship cards.

There are miniatures for the Terran line of ships. The WDN, WCA, and WFF use re-purposed miniatures from Iron Crown. The WCL uses the Fed oCL. The WDD uses the Fed POL.

The other Federation Nations do not yet have miniatures. There has been some talk about maybe making some, but the first hurdle is going to be masters. Quite frankly, the only way they are going to appear is if one of the modelers used by ADB decides on their own to make them. Even then, it is an open question if there is sufficient demand from gamers for those miniatures.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the thing. I'd sculpt them if they were really wanted, but I personally don't see a lot of demand (SVC is the only one who could really say, one way or the other, if the demand is there or not).

I don't have interest in them personally, so I'd be sculpting "on spec" and there isn't a spec out there pulling them in right now.

Other projects like the Klingon F-5W, Federation oCA, and Klingon HF5 have/had more clear "missions" to me, and are more interesting subjects to me as well (since I personally don't play much Middle Years, and no Early Years, Omega, Magellanics, Simulator-Empires, etc.). I can't speak for the other guys, but their output seems similar (Tony's Monitor & Juggernaut, John's ICS BB & B-4, Mike's Terminator, etc.). Matt Alleman seems to be the sculptor doing the most with the "other stuff" with the Omega cruisers he mastered.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point was somewhat different.

If you are waiting for Steve to commission them, they probably aren't going to be done. There isn't sufficient demand, and there are enough other "missing" miniatures to worry about.

However, if a sculptor had a passion for those miniatures, and presented them to Steve, he might (don't know; no promises) make room for them when possible. He has done that multiple times before with other "low demand" miniatures. For example, from your post, the oCA, B-4, and Terminator all fit into that category: Steve didn't ask for them, but when presented with them he used them. (Heck, the F5W even fits that description.) I am pretty sure that is how the Omega cruisers came about, too.

Thus my statement that it will take a sculptor with a passion for the EY Fed National ships to make them unsolicited before we even have a chance to see them made.

[Note this is not a criticism of any one, or a complaint. I am just trying to explain the situation as neutrally as possible.]
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djdood
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All true and point-taken. Every mini I've done has been either "did it and do you want it?" or "I'm going to do it, do you want it?". There are exceptions to this, but it's usually the case. I'm sure I am little different than the other guys (and gal, in Jessica's case).
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markgeorgetwo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: post subject Reply with quote

On the subject of vulcan ships, if the player wants he could use say a ca has the intrepid what was the same class has the enterprise Wink .
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really didn't parse that all too well. However, if you are talking about the idea expressed that some heavy cruisers were given 90% crews of a single Federation nation (e.g. 90% Vulcan on one ship, 90% Andorian on another ship, etc.), sure, there is nothing stopping you from doing that. It is 'canon' Star Trek.

Note that the SFU doesn't really use that concept, but neither does it prevent it, either. If it makes you happy to do that, go for it.
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markgeorgetwo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: post subject Reply with quote

Yeah mr west ,we allowed it in the game has the player involved likes mr spock and the vulcans. and it was a party game what is a game where up to a dozen people each had a ship .while me and a friend where klingon and romulan Wink
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