Federation Commander

HappyDaze · Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: Cloak cost of the NHK and RHK

The Romulan NHK and RHK Command Cruisers both show a Cloak cost of 2 + 1/2 on the ship cards. However, the Revision 5 rules for the cloak note that these ships have a Cloak cost of 2. Are these ship cards in need of revision, or is this an error in the Revision 5 rules?

terryoc · Captain Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1384

My understanding is that if the rulebook and Ship Card disagree, the Ship Card is correct. However, Mike West is the Official Answer Guy and will be able to settle it.
_________________
"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West

HappyDaze · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject:

So the official answer is...?

mjwest · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject:

Go with the ship cards.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy

HappyDaze · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:47 am Post subject:

That fifth revision rulebook is turning out to be a steaming pile of crap. This isn't as bad as when I discovered that web casters had the duration cut in half, but it still seems sloppy. Can't wait to see the gouging that the sixth revision will be.

mjwest · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:31 am Post subject:

Eh, it happens. Federation Commander is still a relatively young game, and it has some growing pains. Nearly all of them were handled in the Rev5 rules, but a few made it through. It happens.

Sorry you are so disappointed in the RRB.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy

HappyDaze · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:22 pm Post subject:

I can buy a "young game" and "growing pains" angle for a game in its first edition, but not the fifth edition of what is essentially the same game as the first edition with clarifications. That "it happens" only demonstrates to me that concern for the product quality is lacking, and that more time should have been taken before rushing out with a fifth edition rulebook.

JimDauphinais · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject:

Bulletproof, clear rules are a highly desirable goal. However, there is a limit of what volunteer-based testing can uncover versus what happens when a set of rules is exposed to hundreds or thousands when it is published. Moreover, those rules that are played by smaller subset of the player base are bound to be less well developed. Also, I have yet to see a game company avoid issues coming up several revisions into series rules. It is not an issue provided the company involved maintains an ongoing compilation of errata and clarifications (much like Mike has done with FC) and eventually folds that information into the rules.

Overall, I feel the fifth edition rules are very well done despite a few issues here and there. In my opinion, they are above average in quality versus that found in the wargaming industry as a whole. I have a lot of experience with the good, the bad and the ugly for rules. FC's fifth edition rules are definitely in the good pile.
_________________
Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/

Bolo_MK_XL · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject:

Then there's the issue that base rules may be on Revision 5, but some newer rules may still be in their first/second printing --

HappyDaze · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject:

Yes, that is an issue. It really makes me think the War and Peace rules for the Andromedans will be sloppy - and that some of the people on these boards will be OK with that sloppiness. Perhaps in another two years they can get it right with the Re-revised Seventh Edition...

pmiller13 · Lieutenant JG Joined: 12 May 2009 Posts: 64

HappyDaze the main difference you will find between Federation Commander (and really all of the game products from this company) and games produced by other companies is that the people who created this game care enough for the game designer to get on the chat boards as well as his designated representative (for FC that’s Mike West) and admit when there has been an error and try to correct that error. Other companies simply do not do this and other company’s definitely have the same issues. Not to name names but if you are a fantasy war gamer the biggest fantasy war game out there is getting yet and again another rules revision, that will incidentally require that you update all of your army books as well. Here when there is an error or a loophole it’s discussed with the community as a whole, a fix is decided on and that fix is implemented. At worse you have to spend money on a pen to write in the change or for some paper and ink to print it out. The change does not invalidate the entire printed product line and force you to buy everything over again.

HappyDaze · Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:47 am Post subject:

There are plenty of other game companies that maintain active online resources to deal with errata. What you don't find in any other company that I'm aware of is a rush to a fifth edition in less than 5 years since the game was released. I feel that the rules book was a shoddy rush job, and nothing other companies do or don't do changes that.

Savedfromwhat · Commander Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 657

This just in forum users... we don't have to change happy dazes mind, or make excuses for ADB. I think the companies amazing track record speaks for itself. Let's let this topic die.

Bolo_MK_XL · Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject:

Seeing Happy is in the region with Micro$oft, can understand him not liking changes ---- He gets enough of them from M$ ---

HappyDaze · Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject:

So, just to see if there are more errors, why do many of the Orion ship cards show weapon tracks (usually Photon and Plasma-F) for wing mounts that are indicated to not be capable of holding them? These ship cards (such as the BR) came with the very same product that gives the most recent rulings that make such ships (or the rules) wrong. So, is it the ship cards or the rules that are wrong this time?