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Monster Box
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Darkbridger
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
Maybe include a note indicating their usefulness as ships for the Branthodon fleet - as well as a picture or two showing a sample conversion to represent the backpacks?


Gary


I'm confused... this race isn't even in the Core "other game" stuff, correct? Why include notes on a unrelated game and product in a game system that is unlikely to ever include that race? Now, if these miniatures get packaged for SFB somehow, maybe such a reference would be useful. However, I've never seen regular Starline (is that the maker?) miniatures being sold anywhere until I saw the Federation Commander boxes.
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Vanessa
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkbridger wrote:


I'm confused... this race isn't even in the Core "other game" stuff, correct? Why include notes on a unrelated game and product in a game system that is unlikely to ever include that race? Now, if these miniatures get packaged for SFB somehow, maybe such a reference would be useful. However, I've never seen regular Starline (is that the maker?) miniatures being sold anywhere until I saw the Federation Commander boxes.
Starline is just the product line as SFB and FC is. The idea behind the Starline 2400 line is more about collectors items...but can be used for play. Or at least that's what I've gathered from the office. SVC may be able to shed a little more light on this. I'm still learning all the products.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, a Space Dragon box set need not have just the FC logo on it - it could have both the logos for FC and for SFB (the way that the Megahex module does).

The whole point would be to help introduce new people to Omega, and to the Branthodons - a note pointing out (for SFB players) that SFB rules for the Branthodons are in Omega 4 (with a note on how to convert the dragons to rep the Branthodon clone-dragonships) would serve as a much-needed advertisement for Omega, with little extra effort required.

Also, since it will possibly take a while before the dragons are released anyway, perhaps the Branthodons could be done for FC by then (if an Omega supplement or two gets done between now and then - perhaps the Alunda could go in one of those sets, to provide the Branthodons with a good historical opponent).


And Vanessa, for many gamers out there (including a lot here in Ireland and the UK) the minis would be used a lot when playing the games, but they are also interesting as collectables too!


Gary
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure something could be said somewhere (maybe an article in Captain's Log) about ways to handle branthadon backpacks.
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Darkbridger
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
Well, a Space Dragon box set need not have just the FC logo on it - it could have both the logos for FC and for SFB (the way that the Megahex module does).

The whole point would be to help introduce new people to Omega, and to the Branthodons - a note pointing out (for SFB players) that SFB rules for the Branthodons are in Omega 4 (with a note on how to convert the dragons to rep the Branthodon clone-dragonships) would serve as a much-needed advertisement for Omega, with little extra effort required.


In my opinion, including references to SFB will mostly just confuse the non-SFB Federation Commander players. Particularly if those races aren't in the game at that point. Since I have no clue what any of this is, I'm assuming Omega 4 came out after my SFB days came to a close. The biggest reason I buy miniatures for Federation Commander is because I can get them in chunks that perfectly match the products I'm buying. That's hugely convenient for someone that's new to this type of game as well. If these products start becoming cluttered with cross-system references, I think it will be deterimental to the "beer and pretzel" gamers. But, I don't know how well the miniatures are selling. If similar packaging had been done for minis back when I was playing SFB, I might have been buying them. But that game has a LOT more ships and variants than Federation Commander.

I will voice one minor complaint with the Federation Commander miniature packaging/advertising. When I buy the rules and boosters I get say Klingon Attack and then Boosters #7, #8, and #9 (not sure on exact numbers here). However, the miniatures are the opposite. The miniatures for Boosters #7, #8 and #9 come in one Border Box, and the ships in Klingon Attack come in Squadron Boxes #7, #8 and #9. It would have been even better to match a Squadron Box to a Booster so that the numbers match and instead have the Attack miniatures all in one Attack Box/Border Box/whatever. I've been asked in a store by a confused customer while I was there, whether Booster #X had the ships in Squadron #X... and no I don't work there, I just happened to be looking at the Federation Commander section. Yes, if you look at the pictures on both products, it's obvious they don't match... but the names mostly do. Confused
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's too late to change it now, and anyway, it wouldn't work.

For the boosters to match the squadron boxes, the squadron boxes would have eight ships and cost $50. That price point was judged too high.

For the border box to match the product, it would have had 16 ships and still cost about $99. (It would take me days to explain why that is, but it is related to packaging costs and economies of scale).

Plus, it defeats a major sales push, which was to have players able to get their ships for $35 while their buddy/enemy got the other box for $35.
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Darkbridger
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
Well, it's too late to change it now, and anyway, it wouldn't work.

For the boosters to match the squadron boxes, the squadron boxes would have eight ships and cost $50. That price point was judged too high.


Ok, I can understand that. And yeah, I realize it's too late.

Steve Cole wrote:

For the border box to match the product, it would have had 16 ships and still cost about $99. (It would take me days to explain why that is, but it is related to packaging costs and economies of scale).


Also makes sense... I understand the economics behind it to some degree.

Steve Cole wrote:

Plus, it defeats a major sales push, which was to have players able to get their ships for $35 while their buddy/enemy got the other box for $35.


Well, that doesn't entirely work. If I want JUST the Klingon ships, I still end up buying a border box or two that has more than just Klingons in it. I know the cost of the ships would go up if you separated the Border Boxes into 2 or 3 sub units though, so I wouldn't expect that to change either. It sounds like you wanted a Warhammer Army approach or something where a player could pick up all the ships of a given race with a minimum of products. I suppose you could re-package the minis later into Racial packs... all the Klingons for one not-so-low price. Smile
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkbridger wrote:


In my opinion, including references to SFB will mostly just confuse the non-SFB Federation Commander players. Particularly if those races aren't in the game at that point. Since I have no clue what any of this is, I'm assuming Omega 4 came out after my SFB days came to a close. The biggest reason I buy miniatures for Federation Commander is because I can get them in chunks that perfectly match the products I'm buying. That's hugely convenient for someone that's new to this type of game as well. If these products start becoming cluttered with cross-system references, I think it will be deterimental to the "beer and pretzel" gamers. But, I don't know how well the miniatures are selling. If similar packaging had been done for minis back when I was playing SFB, I might have been buying them. But that game has a LOT more ships and variants than Federation Commander.


Would it really be so confusing to point out that:

*ADB also make SFB as well as FC, which has the same ships, but is more paperwork,
*The space dragons here can be used as bio-ships for the Branthodon race from SFB Module Omega 4,
*By the way, Omega is a new setting in the Star Fleet Universe, full of new races and technologies. For now, they are seen only in SFB. The Branthodons are one of these factions, being a race of reptilians who captured baby Space Dragons and used them to bioengineer clones, for use as cyborg starships. (Be careful though, they can go wild from time to time!)
*Maybe the Branthodons will show up in FC and Prime Directive one day (and technically there are rules for some of the Omega races for the original PD game in a Captain's Log back issue!), but tuntil then enjoy them as 'wild' space dragons - or feel free to give SFB a try!

And since you are asking, ADB DO sell the Starline minis in fleet boxes with SFB branding, as you can see with the ships included in the Andromedan Fleet Box:



And note that there are two SFB Klingon fleet boxes you can buy, as well!


Gary
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Darkbridger
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
Darkbridger wrote:


In my opinion, including references to SFB will mostly just confuse the non-SFB Federation Commander players. Particularly if those races aren't in the game at that point. Since I have no clue what any of this is, I'm assuming Omega 4 came out after my SFB days came to a close. The biggest reason I buy miniatures for Federation Commander is because I can get them in chunks that perfectly match the products I'm buying. That's hugely convenient for someone that's new to this type of game as well. If these products start becoming cluttered with cross-system references, I think it will be deterimental to the "beer and pretzel" gamers. But, I don't know how well the miniatures are selling. If similar packaging had been done for minis back when I was playing SFB, I might have been buying them. But that game has a LOT more ships and variants than Federation Commander.


Would it really be so confusing to point out that:

*ADB also make SFB as well as FC, which has the same ships, but is more paperwork,
*The space dragons here can be used as bio-ships for the Branthodon race from SFB Module Omega 4,
*By the way, Omega is a new setting in the Star Fleet Universe, full of new races and technologies. For now, they are seen only in SFB. The Branthodons are one of these factions, being a race of reptilians who captured baby Space Dragons and used them to bioengineer clones, for use as cyborg starships. (Be careful though, they can go wild from time to time!)
*Maybe the Branthodons will show up in FC and Prime Directive one day (and technically there are rules for some of the Omega races for the original PD game in a Captain's Log back issue!), but tuntil then enjoy them as 'wild' space dragons - or feel free to give SFB a try!


I think to a non-SFBer, yes, all of that would be confusing. If the race is in Federation Commander, then sure, include notes on how to make the add-on part. I can only comment on my reaction to similar stuff in other games. If a game has a flier included for other material in that game system, I glance at it. If it includes a catalog, I may or may not... usually not... look at it. I don't buy things based on the company usually, though I am known to avoid products by at least two companies. Razz If the game includes a flier for an unrelated game, I almost never look at it. If ADB wants to cross-advertise the systems, then I'm sure they'll do that but I am skeptical that it will lead to many new SFB players.

Nerroth wrote:

And since you are asking, ADB DO sell the Starline minis in fleet boxes with SFB branding...

Gary


Then I think the best place for the Branthodon space dragon cyborg thingies is in an SFB branded miniature package, not in a Federation Commander branded one... unless, as I said, that material is also put into the Federation Commander system.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When GW release Chaos Daemons for their two main games (Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 - which use the same 28mm) they don't do tw oseparate boxes for each game - they do one 'Chaos' listed box with the two relevant game systems labelled on it.

The Megahex pack is a precedent for materials labelled with both SFB and FC labels - and while FC players may asked who all of the new ship types are, there's no harm in them

*Focussing on the ones which are in FC (the first two sheets)
or
*Asking around about these other races - and seeing if they will show up one day in FC.

The SFB Fleet Boxes and the FC Squadron Boxes have different ships included in each, but a Monster or Dragons box would not - and therefore it would make sense to kill two birds with one stone.

And since Branth players can use the same figs, why not make it three (or four, if they are done one day for FC)?


Gary
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Darkbridger
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
When GW release Chaos Daemons for their two main games (Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 - which use the same 28mm) they don't do tw oseparate boxes for each game - they do one 'Chaos' listed box with the two relevant game systems labelled on it.

The Megahex pack is a precedent for materials labelled with both SFB and FC labels - and while FC players may asked who all of the new ship types are, there's no harm in them

*Focussing on the ones which are in FC (the first two sheets)
or
*Asking around about these other races - and seeing if they will show up one day in FC.

The SFB Fleet Boxes and the FC Squadron Boxes have different ships included in each, but a Monster or Dragons box would not - and therefore it would make sense to kill two birds with one stone.

And since Branth players can use the same figs, why not make it three (or four, if they are done one day for FC)?


Gary


You asked (or at least I thought you were responding to me previously) for my opinion and I gave it. Ultimately it's up to ADB whether they include a reference or not. My reasoning on separation was that a Branth player would need more dragons that what will probably be supplied in a Federation Commander Monster Box. If that's not the case, then crossover may work. I don't play (or go anywhere near) Warhammer, so I can't relate to that comparison. <shrug>
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkbridger wrote:

You asked (or at least I thought you were responding to me previously) for my opinion and I gave it. Ultimately it's up to ADB whether they include a reference or not. My reasoning on separation was that a Branth player would need more dragons that what will probably be supplied in a Federation Commander Monster Box. If that's not the case, then crossover may work. I don't play (or go anywhere near) Warhammer, so I can't relate to that comparison. <shrug>


I was responding to you, and I was not trying to have a go at you - I was trying to clarify the situation for you in terms of what ADB have set up, as well as provide a furtheer argument in favour of the Branth idea.

When it comes to Fleet Boxes, the existing fleet boxes (for the likes of the Feds, ISC, Andros, and what have you) are not comprehensive in tewrms of how many ships they provide for a player looking to build a large fleet. They are enough for players who want a good selection of duelling ships, or want to have a squadron of vessels for a mid-sized game.

Each of the ships in a Fleet Box are also sold off the site (either by themselves, or in packs of 2 or 3) if players need to metal out the fleet. (Or to collect a range of ships for conversion projects.)

A dragon pack would be no different - since it's most likely that the various dragon sizes will be available separately on the online store, a Branth player who needs more than the Fleet Box would pick up the odd ship or two needed online.


Gary
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Predator06
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

Monster box makes me think about a Juggernaught figure.

Yummm,, Juggernaught miniature. the closest thing to a borg cube you will ever see in SFB/ FC. Very Happy (meaning as far as an alien machine race causing trouble)
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Predator, I believe that there are plans for Juggernaut minis. There was some discussion on the miniatures threads on the legacy site, as well as a photo of a large-scale resin Juggernaut model that will make your jaw drop!
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, according to the latest word... there are two possible Juggernaut mniniature s that may be produced. At least one in the resin... the other hasn't been stated that I'm aware of.

I'm hoping that both are released and thet they are just enough different to get one of each. Then we'll have Juggernaut Alpha and Juggernaut Beta.

then all we need is Gamma... a fiction story to go with it... a SFB scenario... a Federation Commander scenario... a Prime Directive map... a Prime Directive Scenario... a SFBF card...

OK, I guess I'll stop before someone sends a Prime Team after me to silence me permanently.
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