Federation Commander

[Nerroth]

I thought the term 'vanilla FC' was already in use when not referring to the BoM rules...


Personally, when it comes to new empires in FC, I wouldn't be too concerned about balance issues and whatnot vis-a-vis BoM. The likes of the Baduvai, Mæsrons and Helgardians could be focused primarily on the FC side of the equation, then have things like scouts, carriers, PFTs (if applicable for said empire) and so forth in a BoM context.


The key for me would be to see if the ground could be fertile enough for any such additional empires in the first place, rather than worry too much about how to get their survey cruisers and other optional toys into the mix.



Parsec-ages may vary, however.


EDIT: Okay, so some sort of gunboat rules might be useful to harvest, if the Hiver DD (which is as big as a PF) is ever on the conversion list; but, on the other hand, there is the option of simply avoiding that 'ship' class for the space bees in non-BoM play.
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FC Omega Discussion (v3)
FC LMC Discussion

[terryoc]

[Hod K'el]

My original post was concerning ADDs / AFDs / etc in BoM...thus the 'thinking down stream' concept.

Terry, with respect to the CL #37 BoM fighter rules, I saw a problem in that we were taking out one ship per turn with the missiles from the fighters plus direct fire from the fighters and carrier group. The ships did not have enough drone defense even with the other ships performing defensive fire in the form of offensive fire against the missiles and / or fighters. If the ADDs still had a range 3, things would still be nasty, but not quite so bad.

So, like I said when this got cranked up, I was wondering 'what if' as I wandered through concepts. Thus the post...just to get other thoughts from all of you, but somehow, people do not read well. This has never been about changing FC...just considerations, or if you prefer, options, for BoM, which is based off FC, which is based off SFB.

And for those of you who do not understand 'fighters (Stingers)' and 'limited thinking', the Hydrans are not the only race that will be using fighters. BoM...remember? Not FC!

MW, when you say we are going to add fighters into BoM, I do expect the carriers to start as semi-carriers and progress with subsequent BoM packages that add more 'true' carriers. I would expect 8, 12, then 24 count carriers. If we start off with 12 count, I would be very happy with BoM. If we had all forms of mid range ships, that is a carrier (12) and heavy carrier (24), I would be tickled, nay, giddy. I would buy you a beer if we ever met! And a sandwich to go with it! So, how may we help with BoM? Ship conversions, playtesting, what? Just PM me.
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HoD K'el
IMV Black Dagger
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Life is not victory;
Death is not defeat!

[DirkSJ]

I suspect BoM is going to need tbombs if you go to such huge carrier capacities. Alternately those capacities will get cut way back like how Hydrans were.

Hopefully no Lyran carriers will be made. That was a mistake in SFB that hopefully BoM will not make. The race was designed as a non-fighter race...then they got fighters *boggle*.

[storeylf]

..

[ericphillips]

[DirkSJ]

[mjwest]

1) That list is (as you point out) pretty old. Since it doesn't look like anything is going to be done is groups of 72 ship cards again, the various ships will have to be broken up. Whichever one handles fighters (and carriers and escorts) will likely be dedicated to them.

2) When everyone else gets their fighters, the Lyrans will get theirs, too. Sorry if that is a tragedy, but that is how it works. This doesn't mean, however, that you would actually have to use them.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[ericphillips]

But I think if the old list shows the general direction, it will be 12-fighter carriers. And without chaff, those fighters will go boom fast.

Why is all this a tragedy? It is all optional. It won't be used in tournaments. It might even be fun to play some scenarios with fighters. I would not allow them in a long term campaign game, but sometimes I might play them, to add a little spice to the game... you know, mix it up so the challenges are different (though, scouts just seem like a needless complication- too much work for what it brings to the game, at least from the play test rules I looked at).

Here's how my group does it: we use the basic rules, and then if anyone vetoes using a proposed optional rule, we don't use it. Keeps it simple and civilized.

[DirkSJ]

[ericphillips]

DirkSJ:

I see your point. However, I think that it may not be that bad, if BoM material is redesigned to work with FC rules, not the other way around. And so far, from what I see, that is the case. In the case of fighters, the rules in FC have already been added with Hydran Stingers. And BPV will even it all out. Having a carrier full of fighters might cost as much as two decent ships together.

As for the Lyrans, its that way in SFB, and so it will be in BoM. These rules are made more for SFB players to get a little more of SFB into FC, not a variant of SFB into FC. As a writer, when you create something for someone else's universe, that's the way it goes. Writers need thick skins.

[malleman]

Okay, now I am confused. Are you guys reading the thread before you post, or are you just posting to post?

ericphilips--which side of the fence are you on? First you jump in against Hod's statement after his second post, and now you are interested in BoM? What about all this stuff about SFB being SFB and FC being FC ?Please explain. Also,have you played FC with fighters (not stingers) yet? Now I am not saying that Hod is all right (especially if you met him), but he does bring up valid points of discussion. I think that sometimes people have a hard time understanting what is being said without the privilege of reading facial emotions.

Dirksj--as far as the intent of the race, are you serious? Think about it situations/circumstances will cause evolution. How do you feel about PFs?

What about the Gorn and Romulans in FC? How did they translate? Do you think that some adjustments need to be made or should this be left in its purest form?

If you are concerned about corners being taken because of BoM think about this. Ships are given certain point values in SFB. These values are translated into FC terms. Do you think that there may be some adjustments made to fit SFB ships into the FC game system? What about for tournaments? In otherwords adjustments are made. Example NCD SFB 119/FC 144.

FC has a solid system capable of allowing BoM to be developed for added enjoyment. FC will stay simple and people will also have the option to purchase/play with BoM optional rules. Some people can handle this without going off on the deep end.

edit:
SFB NCD point value does not include the +refit or Y175 refit additons of +4 each.

[ericphillips]

[malleman]

ericphillips,

Like I said do you read first or post. Note I said Hod's second post, in which he clearly states BoM. How can you disagree with him if you haven't played with fighters yet?

[ericphillips]

I just looked back. His second post was about ADDs and AFDs. AFDs are not in FC. Also, fighters, beside stingers, have not been released as a final product, so that is moot.

In other words, I disagree with HoD areguing against rules that don,t exist or are not reeleased.

As such, I look forward to BoM. There is nothing contradictory. Please calm down, as this is a friendly place.