Federation Commander

[Savedfromwhat]

The conversation may be old but that doesn't invalidate it. Plasma is not fun because it isn't competative and that makes me sad. I have a binder dedicated to gorn romulan and now ISC, I only get one of these ships out when I want a challenge. If you think plasma is working well or is "powerful enough already" you are looking at it with star fleet battles colored glasses on. As a romulan player my heavy weapons can be completley avoided even on a closed map I would rather take a race with crunch power then one with plasma, they just work better and typically cost less.

[Savedfromwhat]

There is no situation where a fed player can close to range 2 in my fa arc fire overloaded photons and not be forced to deal with plasma. That is the problem I have with plasma in fc, my torpedoes have no chance of hitting against an equally skilled opponent, that's why I like speed 34 plasma where the torpedo moves one hex at launch and an extra hex on the first impulse in play.

[rulesjd]

[Savedfromwhat]

[storeylf]

[pinecone]

Uh, guys?

If you say the Plasma users get a 40-speed plasma, then you have to give those facing it wild weasels. Otherwise it's just not fair.

Saved: The KR shouldn't be a competetive match for the CA. The K7R should, but a D6 should not beat a CA. The fact that a D6 hull was a competetive match for the CA shows that this "Sabot" Plasma is too powerful.

I'm in the middle of playing the scenario Refiner's Fire right now, and if there had been 40 speed plasmas I would have already lost, despite a lot of bad moves my opponent had made. But I have actually succeded in evening the odds of the battle.

And on that note, one of the bad moves my opponent made was not bolting his plasma. Again, if he had done that I would have been in serious trouble. But he didn't, and that's the main reason why I'm almost ahead. Plasma Bolts (especially carronades) are worth using for sure.

Plasma might not hit that often, but the threat of it keeps the enemy running. That alone makes plasma worth it.

[terryoc]

[Savedfromwhat]

A 132 point ship shouldnt be able to compete with a 145 point ship but a 166 point ship should... I think you have a double standard here pinecone. The Ship that is 13 points cheaper (KR to CA) shouldn't be able to compete but the ship that is 21 points cheaper (CA to K7R) should be able to be competative...? And Pinecone if it is the Threat of plasma that makes plasma worth it I am much more threatened by Photons then Plasma because with plasma bolts I have a 66% chance of being missed all the way to range zero while photons on the other hand do not have that limitation and with Plasma Torpedoes I know that I can run the plasma down for little to no damage and then I have 2 turns to have my way with the Gorn/Rom. The threat is very important yes, but eventually you have to start doing damage to win.

And Storyelf in the captains Log Tournament Reports there is only 1 Plasma Race that has been used and that is the Romulans in a fleet scale game in 2007 and in this game the federation player used the Close and Hose tactic (which is perfectly viable and well played) that allowed them to fire everything and evade any repurcusion for it. Also there was no pre-defined LDR squadron at the Tournament this year, maybe the LDR players were loath to bring one of their own as well.

I am not trying to say we need a huge overhaul of the Game just that I believe there is a flaw with a specific weapons system and that flaw comes due to the translation of one game system to another. Yes it is a small sample Storyelf but it shouldn't just be ignored I agree with you that it is not definative of a problem, but it is worth considering.

My Question to EVERYONE here is "If you are playing in a 2010 tournament (That you want to win not just participate in) with the options of Fed, LDR, Orion, Hydran, Gorn, and Romulan; would any of you take Gorn or Romulan?"

I apologize in advance if I have come across as Rude or Heavy handed. Storyelf in the past I have gotten into heated debate with you and that is completley my fault for being impolite and incosiderate I would like to have a constructive discussion with you.[/b]

[rulesjd]

[DirkSJ]

[Savedfromwhat]

[Steve Cole]

While I am a long way from convinced that plasma is a problem, or has a problem, changing BPVs is very hard the way FC is printed, and would not be the way i'd fix it if it needs fixing at all.
_________________
The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[ericphillips]

[quote="Savedfromwhat"]

[marcus_aurelius]

I am not really convinced that speed 40 plasmas are needed.

Back in the late 80's / early 90's I played a lot of Gorn and Romulan ships in SFB. Once I got the hang of it I was able to win almost every game with only speed 32 plasmas (I had never heard of a speed 40 plasmas at the time).

This includes fighting Feds trying to retrograde with proximity photons, transporter bombs and wild weasels. None of which exist in FC. Of course I loved enveloping plasmas in SFB and never ever followed a retrograde attempt.

For me the key was patience and speed. It would usually take me 12+ turns to win. I just needed to keep my discipline and wait for the opponent to make a mistake. (To me most games are not about who played best, but about who made the fewest / mildest mistakes.)

Each turn I would fire roughly 1/3 of my plasmas at the opponent while going as fast as possible. This allows me to keep up roughly the same plasma rate every turn. I would ideally fire those plasmas at about 11-13 hexes and immediately turn away. The opponent could then turn away or eat the plasmas. If they eat the plasmas, then there is a weak point for my phasers and subsequent plasmas.

This keeps a constant plasma pressure on the enemy every turn with no break. This generally forces the enemy to stay on the defensive every turn even if they avoided plasma damage. A turn with no plasma launches is a turn where the enemy has an opportunity to gain the initiative / offense and put the plasma ship on the defensive.

Never, ever should a plasma ship get within range 8 of a fully loaded opponent. To speak to an earlier example, if an opponent gets to range ~1, fires, HETs and runs away from the plasma ship, this is because the plasma ship captain really messed up and deserves to lose.

Also, speaking to patience, if the enemy avoids plasmas by a HET, that is ok if I avoid damage because I can always reload plasmas, the opponent no longer has their free HET.

I have only played plasma ships twice in FC. Once in Refiners Fire, where I lost my discipline and did not follow my own aforementioned advice and only barely scraped out a marginal victory by more luck than skill. The other time was Romulan versus Gorn, but that was a teaching game where I would talk through every step with my novice opponent.

I need to get more expericene with plasmas in FC (we seem to play mostly 'western' empires), but nothing I see invalidates the broad strokes of my SFB tactics.

P.S. I wish I could buy Romulan ships withOUT a cloaking device. To me using a cloaking device equates with losing the initiative or trying to hide after a colossal mistake.

[DirkSJ]