Federation Commander

[phul]

Let me start by saying... When the group I'm in first started playing FC, and started trying to play plasma, we had pretty much all the complaints I've seen here at one point or another, to where they (the plasma races) got almost no play as a result. After playing the races we had at the time excluding them to the point where we felt it was more about who made a mistake first, instead of who made the first 'right move', we went back and looked at plasma races. I still see the concerns people have, just I now believe there are ways to counter all those concerns.

The biggest key to plasma races (IMO), is making your opponent make choices out of decisions you force on him. Read the outline of tactics I posted back on page 5 (6?), and look for ways that it will work, instead of ways it won't. Play it out a few times with your friends. Plasma is competitve.

Well aware that my game last night proves nothing to the masses. To me, it's a perfect underline to my point. I feel that my opponent is highly skilled (albeit, Klingons are his favored race, but Lyrans are very close to Klingons in ship performance, weapons, etc). Granted, we haven't had a chance to play outside of our 'pod'. But we're looking to change that in the near future and get a better meter to compare our game to the game of other groups (I'd guess we're on par, based on things I see said on these forums). Also... excessive caveats. It's just a playing of a Rom vs. Lyran. Food for thought, etc.

So played my game last night. Was a very fun and engaging game. As mentioned, my Rom fleet, (1 FH (CA), 2 SP (CL), Late War Cruisers) against what we thought was the Winning Tourney fleet, a Lyran DNH & 2 DW (thread on forums said it was a DN, but there were points for a DNH, so we used that). We used the Tourney rules (board size, time limit, etc).

Turn #1:
Roms go 16, Lyrans go 16
Roms close the distance, Lyrans form a wedge, with DNH leading. Lyrans turned to their right, then turned back into Roms, Roms closes, then turns right (attempting to force a specific range. I made a calculation error and ended up 1 hex farther than desired). Impulse 8 leaves both fleets at ~14 hexes, and the only fire of the turn happens. Roms fire all P1's at the close DW, but roll high (I think 3 net damage after batteries), Lyrans fire all viable weapons (1 DNH and 1 DW @ 14 hexes, 1 DW at 16 hexes). 2 internals from bleed through were recieved by the FH (L Warp, Lab), total damage was in the mid 20's, but due to 3 volleys, and 5 batteries per volley, minimal shield damage on #6. During launch, Rom fleet launched all LP Pl-F at the DNH (3 F's, 60 potential).

Turn #1 Inter-turn:
Roms repair L-warp on FH. Carry full batteries into the next turn.
LYN carry full batteries into the next turn.

Turn #2
Roms go 24. Lyrans go 24. Roms now have PL-S (current load out is now 4 PL-S in FP, and 3 PL-F in RP).
Lyran player turns the DNH away, to it's right, and runs for the next 4 impulses from the plasma, coming to a turn decision, and taking the long arc away from the Rom corner, ending the turn half way back (turn mode 5 is big arc!). The Lyran DW did a covering action for the DNH, flying across it's aft. The Rom ships, turned left, coming up behind the DNH at ~10 hexes (placing them at 5 hexes on the closest DW). Impulse 3/4 results in all able phasor fire on 1 DW (13 P1's if I recall), Lyran returns fire for a bleed damage on the FH of 1 lab. Lyran loses a shield, takes 17 total internals (1 bleed, 16 overwhelm. 1 P1, 7 blue boxes+1bat). Wounded DW runs for Rom side opposite corner, pristine DW runs for the Rom Corner. Rom SP's chase the pristine DW, while the FH stops accelerating (everyone had been accelerating up to this point), sits in place (decellerating/side slips to mitigate forward movement for minimal cost - in retrospect, I could have Emer Decel'd, but wanted to keep the options open incase of the HET) from the DNH, keeping it's FA on the DNH. Impulse 8 sees all available DNH fire on the FH at a range of... I believe it was 10 hexes. FH was in the DNH R arc (it was either 6 or 10 P1s, and 2 Disr, can't remember exactly). FH Shield #1 (by Rom choice) took ~20 damage, Internal treat was a lab. FH launches both PL-S at the DNH.

End of turn has the wounded DW turned around and looking down the hex verticie at range 8 at the FH out #4/5, the DNH looking at it out #1/2. Pristine DW is nearing the Rom corner with the 2 SP chasing it at a range of 5 (4 hexes aft, 1 hex off center).

Turn #2 Inter-turn:
Don't recall the repair choices. Shields were moved. Much fun was had with all the black dot management (lines are evil!).

Turn #3
FH / wounded DW go 16, all others 24.
Impulse 1, Lyran DNH announces HET. Rom FH announces HET in response.

-Game ends-

Lyran player conceded the game as the outcome appeared a forgone conclusion to him. Not sure I agreed, but it was definitely looking grim for the Lyran. My expectation of turn 3 was that he would be down 2 DW, and I would have a fairly damaged FH (if he chose to eat the plasma, which it was his intent with the HET), or he would be on the other side of the board with the DNH, and I would be down to 4 2 turn armed plasma F's for the 4th turn. Of course, a lot can happen in 8 impulses...

This game took 2.25hours.

From a critique perspective... I think the break off of 1 ship in a 3 ship fleet when I fired the warning plasma was the ideal situation for the Roms. If he were flying a 4 ship equal points (observing ship limitations, etc), this is a viable tactic for the non-Rom. But pulling off his DNH and putting the DW behind it, between me and the DNH, was begging me to kill one of them. In discussion after, he said his hope was that I would chase the DNH, firing on it's rear, and the DW would be able to come in behind me. Otherwise... I didn't really see any huge gaping holes in my opponents game. He took the conservative approach re: the plasma, opting to not be hit by the first warning shots (which did get 1 hex away from him while he was running while at 10 str each).

[mojo jojo]

Some points here:

1) First of all, it makes a BIG difference if it's the Lyrans or Klingons. Klingons would have 6-8 drones per turn soaking up phasers whereas the Lyran ESG isn't really terribly useful unless the ROM has burned all plasma.

2) Why wasn't the Lyran force going speed 24 on turn 1? With no S available, they should easily be able to swoop in and land 12 DIS plus a bunch of phasers. They should easily do more damage than the Romulans.

3) WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THE DNH TURN AWAY FROM A PIDDLY 3 PL-F????? It appears as if they would strike at the 10 pt level. The DNH has enough phasers to totally wipe out all 30 pts of plasma and still have 6 disrupters to fire at Romulan ships. At least force the Roms to launch a couple of S's or the rest of their F's on turn 2.

4) As you noted, it was a mistake leaving 3 Rom ships to concentrate on a single DW without support. Don't count on most opponents allowing you to do this.

I think you would get a totally different game if you were facing Klingons or Kzinti or even Lyrans with different tactics. The drones make a huge difference in a fight like this and it's rather silly leaving your little ships to die when your big ship has enough phasers to eliminate the plasma aimed at it.

[pinecone]

[quote="mojo jojo"]WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THE DNH TURN AWAY FROM A PIDDLY 3 PL-F????? It appears as if they would strike at the 10 pt level. The DNH has enough phasers to totally wipe out all 30 pts of plasma and still have 6 disrupters to fire at Romulan ships. At least force the Roms to launch a couple of S's or the rest of their F's on turn 2.[quote]

Remember, each point of plasma takes 2 points of damage to reduce. So unless it was an LDR ship (and even then) it would be VERY tough to handle. another reason I believe plasma is fine as is.

Running away is an effective way of countering it. It is also the only way of countering it.

[mojo jojo]

[DirkSJ]

[phul]

[Savedfromwhat]

Phul, I agree this is not indicitive of plasma being "alright" or not. Against a fixed target plasma is incredible I would even say glorious (and damned frustrating on the receiving end) but against moving targets who pick speed 24 and stick together, it just doesn't work the way people who claim it is fine are advocating.

We have had all this talk about how tournaments are a special case, well plasma is required to be played on a floating or open map as per the game rules, is this a problem?

"Excuse me, a location map" - Saved

[mojo jojo]

[phul]

[Savedfromwhat]

Phul, I have tried almost all of what you have advocated, I have not read a single tactic here that isn't old hat to my gaming community here in Phoenix we play almost every weekend 2 or 3 games, I personally use plasma a lot, I personally do ok with it, I am much better with the Feds and with Klingons. We have found that in the hands of two competant players barring any mistakes the direct Fire player will always win.

What tactic are you trying to get me to use Phul one of these?

1) Charge the plasma
2) Turn and run.
3) Break the plasma target off and advance with remaining ships (this option is least apealing against a 4 ship fleet, preferable vs. 3 ship fleets).

then yes I have tried them and am discounting them as minimally effective to inneffective.

[phul]

[phul]

[mojo jojo]

[phul]

[mojo jojo]