Federation Commander

[Bolo_MK_XL]

My opinion forever has been --

If you want a perfect balanced game, you have to give both sides the EXACT same forces (Tanks, ships, planes etc) ---

Almost everything has a plus or minus against something it will face ----

[mojo jojo]

Of course you won't get perfect balance with asymetrical forces. However you should get reasonably good balance. As a personal opinion, I think 60/40 should be good enough balance for any race in general as long as it's fun. And since there is a certain rock-paper-scissors aspect to the game, a race with a particularly bad matchup can go 20-25% chance between equal players but that should be as low as it goes and only if there are other races where it has 70-80% chances. Any race should be able to beat any other race at least some of the time even if the matchup is bad and no race should be a punching bag.

I happen to think that plasma in general will not win 40%, at least under tournament conditions. I also think there are some egregiously bad matchups elsewhere such as Selts vs Andros.

[DirkSJ]

[storeylf]

[Bolo_MK_XL]

A "Trick" set of dice is about it for winning all the time ----

[mjwest]

In my mind there is a difference between a "trick" and a "set of tactics". At its base level a "trick" is indeed a set of tactics, but it is slightly more than that. It is a set of tactics that is, once learned, guaranteed (or nearly so) to work. It is a "cook book" set of tactics that negate just about any (if not all) tactics that the opponent can use.

In your example, the basic set of tactics that a Klingon can use to beat a Fed in a medium range game (aka "sabre dancing") is not a "trick" as there are counter-tactics that give the Fed a decent chance of winning. A "trick" has no effective counter-tactics.

Bonus points if the "trick" is easy to execute. Another reason why sabre dancing is not a "trick" is that you have to be good to use it. With a real "trick", you don't have to be good to beat someone else; just follow the trick.

Please note that I am not saying that there is a "trick" against plasma. Just helping to explain the difference between a "trick" and a generic "set of tactics".
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[DirkSJ]

[rulesjd]

[storeylf]

Apologies if I'm asking someone to repeat themselves, but it appears a question of degrees here. Most of what has been said about trying to handle plasma I see as tactical decision that has downsides as well as upsides and often IMO isn't even a clear cut decision, other obviously see it as a trick.

Rather than guess at what people see as the trick part and what are the less clear tactical decisions and not part of the trick, can somone who believes in the trick post a nice succinct version of 'the trick', without to much extraneous clutter. To use MWests words - If I opened a cook book, what recipe would I see that someone who isn't good could follow and win.

[storeylf]

The other thing I wouldn't mind clarified is what people see as the definition of plasma ballet. Before deciding if it is the only tactic it would useful to know what that tactic is. I don't see the tactic as described by phul being plasma ballet.

It may be one of those things that means different things to different people based on how there group has played with plasma.

To me the ballet (from SFB) is where the plasma chucker came in fast, launched plasma somewhat outside overload range and then veered away fast. Due to the nature of SFB being less reactive the plasma was likely to hit at some point, so repeated plasma passes would eventually wear the other guy down, whilst avoiding taking much damage in return.

You could still do that in FC as well.

The point of phuls general tactics is not to launch and veer off, but to try and force some or all of the enemy to veer off, and then get aggressive with him. Or the other guy eats the more or less full plasma. That has also been my intent the couple of times I've played plasma and used the same basic concept.

[Rock Hudson]

Firstly I tend to agree plasma under FC has a few issues, I principally play Romulans these days and while I don't think that the weapon's woefully underpowered it is very hard to get bubble (launched) plasma to hit without either a catastrophic error of play from the opponent or some level of acquiesence.

Personally I have found that the best way to hit with bubble-plasma is to work on the latter options, using a tactic our gaming group refers to as feeding the opponent. In this small quantities are launched rather than to force the opponent to turn away rather to lure them in with the promise of a decent shot in exchange for a manageable quantity of damage on an off-shield only to make the sought-after shot less appealing than it originally looked and the damage coming back considerably larger.

As such the key, in my mind, to plasma is deception, I've never honestly liked the plasma ballet much and I honestly think with the ability of ships in FC to turn far more rapidly than in SFB the tactic is fundanmentally flawed, essentially you are exchanging real firepower for a very short term positional advantage that it is very hard to exploit.

In larger fleet actions the bolt option becomes quite credible also, when you have 10+ plasma S torps, the range 10 damage is quite a scary proposition, especially against a fleet that's desperately seeking range 8 for a solid reply, while the held F torps provide enough cover to make chasing the leet down a prickly proposition. In smaller games, however, the swing against missing torps is I find too great to really bet the whole boat on.

On the topic of the tournament, I think a lot of the problem is with the weapon status in that particular set up for the first turn, effectively the plasma player against most opponents has to cede the centre of the map to their opponents as their main heavy weapons are not on-line as yet. This makes it considerably hard to corner the opposing fleet using threatened plasma and real launches considerably tougher to achive, exacerbating the difficulty in hitting with the bubbled death notably as the opponent has more directions available to avoid a heavy launch.

Finally I honestly think that the value of the cloaking device is horribly overlooked by many players, I've had many notable successes when using cloak agressively against opponents and, certainly for Romulans, agressive use of the cloak makes plasma far more viable. I wrote a small piece on various tactics to try under the relevant section on the site some time back.

On the topic of making plasma faster, I actually rather like the 5-5-4-4-4-4-4 etc move idea for torps, it provide two advantages without in my mind being horribly over powered, firstly that ships 2 hexes away will be taking a plasma hit and secondly when launched as a discouragement or fed, the range of impact is that tiny it further away, not a bad thing all told. Oh that and the range bracket nicely match those of bolted torpedoes, so in a strange way in keeping.

That's my two pence, hope it's of some use.

[mojo jojo]

I don't claim to be an expert, but here is how I would fight plasma:

Tactics have to be varied according to matchups and opponents. However, let's take the earlier FH and 2 SPH vs Lyran DNH and 2 DW as an example.

1) First look at the matchups. The DNH and 2 DW have a combined 12 Dis, 18 PH1, and 8 PH2 that can face forward to some extent. Some of the phasers are RS/LS and won't enter play, but that's ok since the Lyran probably needs lots of discretionary power anyway.

The FH and SPH have 14 PH1 that can fire forward and 4 S and 6 F.

This suggests that the Lyran wants to have a frontal exchange as much as possible. Any range up to 15 is quite good for the Lyrans, and even longer than that is ok.

2) Trade shots on the approach. At range 15, this should lead to a downed shield, or at least heavy damage to a Rom shield. The Roms probably scratch a Lyran shield at this range.

If you get the range down to 8, the Roms not only lose a shield, they take significant internal damage while the Lyran probably loses just a shield.

3) The Roms probably launch some torps on the approach. Determine the estimated impulse of impact and how much damage they will do upon hitting.

3a) If after allocating phasers at them, you would still have direct fire superiority, then continue inward and conduct the fire exchange. It may be ok to take some torp damage on the 2 or 6 shield in exchange for more damage to a Rom ship. For example, if you determine that 30 pts of plasma would strike, then determine how much firepower the Lyrans have left. In this case, it's 12 Disrupters and 5-10 PH1 which you think should still have an advantage over what the Roms have. If it's 50 pts of plasma, then you might phaser down 30-40 and take 10-20 on an off shield.

3b) If you think you will be taking disproportionate damage even after phaser fire, let's say if the Roms launch 2 S and 3 F, then then determine the target. If it's a DW, then run it away. The DNH and other DW should still outshoot the Rom fleet. If it's a DNH, then turn the fleet and outrun the torps. You know that the Roms only have 2 S and 3 F left at this point. Also, they'll be chasing you with at least one of them having a down front shield while your rear shields are pristine.

4) If they didn't launch enough torps in step 3 to force you away, then keep hammering them until they do. If they did launch enough in step 3, then turn, using a HET if necessary back at them after the torps have been outrun. This time you can afford to be more aggressive even if they launch 2 S and 3 F unless it would be a point blank hit to the same shield. because you know they're going to be dry the next turn. Be willing to take torp damage to a 2 or 6 shield and hammer them with direct fire weapons. During the reload turn, it should be easy to smash their fleet.

5) Make sure you don't go below base speed 24 unless the Rom is dry or mostly dry.

These tactics obviously would change with the matchup. A Kzinti fleet would obviously be much easier to win with due to enormous numbers of drones.

[DirkSJ]

I agree with mojo's post. The shorter summary version, how I would word it:

1 - Close in, always go 24
2 - Fire on prior turn approach at range, keep closing
3 - They will launch at you
a - If the launch is small enough, slip/shoot it down, take small dmg on a side shield and continue until they fire more
b - If the launch is very large, turn the fleet and outrun it, once it's reduced a bit take the small remainder on 3/5 and turn back
4 - Come back in, if they launch, take it, fire, H&R any plasmas currently being reloaded
5 - Fire on the reload turn, scrapping their fleet

If the Rom at any point decides to play the "run away" game disruptors win over phasers and plasma. So that's not covered in the above.

[Kang]

With regard to the tournament abilities of the plasma races, then, isn't it to their advantage that the map is a fixed map? Surely then they can chase the enemy down and eventually pin them against the map edge, so they've nowhere to run?
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[Kor]

I still don't understand why the Romulans lost the PPT, it wasn't a huge thing in terms of games in that we only had a limited number, it doesn't slow down FC too much in that the plasma ballet is already a time consuming tactic anyway, and it helps force the enemy into wasting HETs and accelerations when they don't need to. All things that can only help the plasma races compete against others.
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