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Preferred Heavy War Destroyer Configurations?
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marcus_aurelius
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Joined: 07 Jun 2008
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Location: Cary IL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had also thought that the rear photon idea would be interesting and fun. Perhaps 1 or 2 RA Photons. I thought about it more and realized that this configuration could be abused and not used for the intended purpose.

The complications/abuses that I thought of for this configuration were:

1. If no extra power is added to the ship then the rear photons might rarely be used due to lack of power.

2. If extra power is added, then the extra power might end up being used for different purposes like moving speed 32 with 3 OL FA photons and firing phasers.

3. The RA photons could easily devolve into simply "photon damage absorbers" to keep all 3 FA photons on line as long as possible.

I am not sure how these potenial abuses could be best solved.

One thought I had would be that the HDW module that could carry a limited number of RA photons in stasis (like A10 fighters) this could force the use of the photons in the RA arc without the complications of adding more power to the ship that might be used for other purposes. Sort of the same idea as the plasma-D for the Romulans or the defensive plasma-F on the ISC.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way that stasis photons are getting into the game.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't see that as "abuse".

First, you can't have any more power on the HDW than is shown on the SSD in the first place. You can only remove power; you can't add it. The Fed HDW has a maximum of 33 power, and could have a little as 29.

Second, any opponent that sacrifices offensive potential for "damage sponges" has done me a favor. Two RA photon will allow the three forward photons to live longer, potentially a lot longer. But if he does not power them, they won't be doing me any damage, and reduce his total damage potential. If the two RA weapons are drones, that is two more drones a turn I have to worry about (or way more ADD shots killing my drones), and a scatter pack or two in the making. If the two RA weapons are photons he doesn't power, then I don't have to worry or deal with any of that. I will gladly give my opponent two free photon hits to remove offensive potential like that.

Third, it probably is worth charging the rear photons, if taken. Sure the arc is dead-astern, but it add tactical options that are not present on any other Federation ship (outside the battleship). It complicates an opponent's pursuit. (Heck, you can perform the Kaufman Retrograde while moving forward!) And, with 33 power, you can hold normal loads in the back, overloads forward, and still go speed 30.
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dreamingbadger
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Heck, you can perform the Kaufman Retrograde while moving forward!


It feels wrong to call it the Kaufman Charge!
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dreamingbadger wrote:
mjwest wrote:
Heck, you can perform the Kaufman Retrograde while moving forward!

It feels wrong to call it the Kaufman Charge!

Call it the Sir Robin Charge instead. Smile
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dreamingbadger
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Call it the Sir Robin Charge instead. Smile


ah brave brave Sir Robin, he ran and fled, now he wishes, he were dead...
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SWO_Daddy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For any of the empires that use both drones and DF weapons (photons or disruptors), I actually like one of each. Photon and Drn-G on a Fed, Disr and Drone-B on Kzinti, Klingon, WYN. Gives the ship some of the rear firing HW advantages, and boosts its seeking weapon throw weight. Its a tough choice on the D&D boats, because the potential for creating drone throwing machine is so high.

Plasma races...PL-Fs are almost a no-brainer. Particularly for the Gorns. Given the existance of the carronade, it seems like a waste to make the two adjacent rear mounts a single Pl-G.

Hydran...RA Fusions. If used as a standard warship, the fusion-armed Hydran HDW gains in spades by adding these. Pretty much gaurantees the 3 FA fusions will survive until the ship reaches range 2. And if the knife fight persists, the rear fusions can be quickly armed on reserve power.

The NWOs could be all kinds of things...
LABs... Massive seeking weapon ID potential
FLAG boxes... allows most HDWs to act as CR10 flagships
Shuttles... can turn the ship into a drogue launching machine
or can house a couple of extra handy fighters.

APR*s...messing with these is almost criminal on a pure combat variant.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not sure why I would ever take a HDW instead of an NCL in Fed Commander (except an an excuse to use an HDW miniature).


Well, as far as the drone racks go, I was playing a PBEM game vs a squadron of ships including a Fed NCD recently, and the drones were a real problem. Eric had 5 drone racks (at Fleet Scale) and managed to get 10 drones in flight simultaneously. That many drones made it very difficult for the target to maneuver, soaked up many phasers and power (not just phaser-3s), and even used up a defensive plasma-F that I would rather have used offensively. And even after two lost tracking when I blew up one of Eric's ships, one still got through and blew down the rear shield. Another two would have crippled my CA very badly.

Take two HDWs with drone racks instead of an NCL and a NCD in a squadron battle, you have one less drone rack but two more photons. Which may be worth it. In a duel, the NCL is probably better. In a fleet action, maybe the HDW. In a campaign, having reconfigurable ships may be even better.

Now maybe Mike can Borders-of-Madness-ify the HDW rules and do an Orion style list of what can go in what box...
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marcus_aurelius
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points everyone, so perhaps an HDW with 2 RA photons
would be reasonable. I might experiment with this at some point then.

As far as the HDW (with drones) vs NCL, I will probably have to experiment with the HDW more to understand it better. I have played the NCL many times so I know its capabilities very well.
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