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Gurps vs d20...which?

 
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irashaine1972
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Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:14 pm    Post subject: Gurps vs d20...which? Reply with quote

What is the better system for playing the SF universe?

It has been about 20 years since I played a GURPS game so my memory of the system is pretty much buried under 2 decades of other gaming information. Of course who hasn't played tons of d20 based games?

Which one is better? Which is the most complete at the moment? Does the d20 modern require the modern core book? Is it not OOP and kinda hard to find?

So far it seems that GURPS is shaping up to be the most well rounded what with a third sourcebook soon available. I like an RPG with ALOT of source material. However d20 has the added pro of being well known but if material is hard to get or not forthcoming in the remainder of my lifetime whats the point?

Whats the current players opinion on the pros and cons between the 2 systems?

Anybosy have any idea on what types of material we might see over the course of the next year......if any?
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a coin toss. GURPS may be a little better for scifi, but then, d20 and especially d20 Modern can do it easily enough. Most d20 stuff is fantasy and of little real use but then a lot of GURPS is also fantasy. Both systems have tons of scific books you can use as resources for strange new worlds.
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irashaine1972
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is the d20 core stuff include basic rules? The d20 modern stuff is OOP and seems a little hard to find short of ebay. Maybe the GURPS would be a better route to go? Looks like it will soon sport the most sourcebooks when the fed book is released.
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cat person or Dog Person? Level Based System or Point Based System is the only question you really need to ask. Yes D20 and D20M stuff is Out of Print (Thank you Wizards) is it hard to find not really (Check Amazon.com they have books right now), besides one of the Download Sites (RPG Now I think but not positive.) has a D20M Download bundle that covers everything not in PD20M Core Book. You will need Scoutdad to give you a actual run down of what is missing in the PD20M book.

Edit: I knew I saw this someplace...

Scoutdad wrote:
Unfortunately, the answer is yes.

While the GURPS version of PR does have everything you need to play... the d20/d20M license does not allow for the inclusion of several of the rules needed for playing. This makesthe D20M core rulebook (which is sadly, oop) a necessasy evil...


BPIJonathan wrote:
Wolverin61 wrote:
Do you need the oop D20M book for PD20M?


Fortunately the answer is no. You can pick up RPGObjects Modern d20 Core Kit for free at http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=57989. It has everything you need to run the game when combined with the PD20 Modern book.


Myself personally I would rather run a D6 System nothing is easier to teach people how to play a role play game than handing them a Template and say insert 7 +1s where you would like to be better and start playing. But until a PD6 system is moved up in the line I use Gurps. Like SVC said there are tons of reference material out there to support any system. I personally like SJGames support and playing aids you can buy as well as their Source Books that are already the same system (Space, Traveller, High Tech, Ultra Tech etc.) not to mention SJG handy Gurps Character Assistant program and 4th edition Combat Cards. One last caveat Gurps Prime Directive includes the Gurps Lite Rule Set which is enough rules to Generate Characters and play but if you want a super detailed experience you should purchase the the Gurps Basic Set: Character and Campaigns but I have been doing just fine with out them for almost a year now.
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Last edited by Dal Downing on Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Gurps vs d20...which? Reply with quote

irashaine1972 wrote:
Anybosy have any idea on what types of material we might see over the course of the next year......if any?


I belive PD Tholians is up next which would be a Source Book for Tholians and Seltorians but, Jean might suprise us all and push PD Orion Pirates. Either of which would still build on the Races actually Seen in TOS.
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dal found the link I would have posted:
The D20M core book is OOP, but RPgnow does have it (well, not really the D20M rulebook, but enough of it to play) as a free to download PDF. Everyone in our group has downloaded it and we find it works quite well.

As for which is best: D20M / Gurps?
Apples... Oranges,
Cat person... Dog person (I like this analogy),
Points based... level based...

We (as a group are more familar with the level based system (ala' D20), so we chose D20M.
On a side note, ADB as decided that D20 Modern will be the D20 system of prefernce and that all future releases will be for D20M rather than D20.
I know people who prefer points based systems, so they wopuld most likely choose GURPS.

I would like to state that D20M handles Sci-Fi gaming most better than plain old D20 (fantasy based) does, although it's still a bit wonky in some instances. But nothing that can't be overcome with old-fashioned ingenuity and imagination.

Both systems work well across multiple genres, meanig that if you want to explore a medival aged, bronze-aged, nuclear-aged, or even futuristic fusion-tech world - you can. It may be easier to use sourcebooks from a third party vendor covering those specific genres, but a good GM could handle it with just the material on hand.

As for what's included;
The GURPs version includes everytihng needed to start playing the game in the core rulebook.
The D20 open license however; will not allow ADB to include character generation rules in the core rulebook; hence the need for the D20M core book or the modern D20 Core Download Kit.

As for avaialble source books and references available:
GURPS has the core book, Klingons and Romulans currently available; and GURPS: Federation is expected to be completed over Jean's Christmas pilgrimage to Amarillo.
D20M has the core rulebook, Klingons and the Federation sourcebook currently available; and D20M Romulans is being converted and updated now.
The next scheduled release is Prime Directive Tholians. Loren Knight is hard at work on this product and we should see it soon. If it follows the typical schedule, the D20M version will be released first as it only requires ADBs approval. The GURPS version will follow soon after that as it requires the approval of ADB, followed by the approval of Steve Jackson Games.
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mojo_billbo
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion: Both are very good, very very good based on how the game systems evolved over the years. So you can't go "wrong" with either.

Each has it's strong points, but it's my opinion that GURPS works much better for Sci-Fi type of games, such as PD, vs. D20M.

That said, most gaming groups I've dealt with over the past 20 years have been very solidly in the "D20" camp of things. However, when I run PD, I "force" GURPS because I think the mechanics of how the GURPS system runs feels more "Trek" to me.
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Jean
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My next goal is to get PD20M Romulans out so there will be a complete set.

I'd like to get a new system book out next -- I am hearing a lot of call for Mongoose Traveler.

But a lot depends on my outside writers.
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rexbinary
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Joined: 25 Dec 2010
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Location: Plano, TX USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been wanting to pick up Prime Directive, but was unsure what version to get as well. I am more familiar with d20 type games and was planning on picking up PD20 Modern.

Now that I understand the d20 Modern core book is out of print, it seems to me GURPS might be the best way to go. Just not sure I want to learn another system.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rexbinary wrote:
I have been wanting to pick up Prime Directive, but was unsure what version to get as well. I am more familiar with d20 type games and was planning on picking up PD20 Modern.

Now that I understand the d20 Modern core book is out of print, it seems to me GURPS might be the best way to go. Just not sure I want to learn another system.


While it's true that the D20M Core Ruelbook is OOP, you can download the D20M Core Rules Kit for free at RPGnow. It provides all the info that was previously available in the D20M Core Rulebook.
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gurps_gm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a GURPS head I say go with GURPS. Yes, my bias is showing. The core book is all you need to run PD under GURPS.

However, GURPS combat turn, 1 second, requiring to be more hands on with your character.
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ericphillips
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played a lot of different gaming systems. I think GURPS captures the feel of the Star Fleet Universe better. Plus, GURPS has the best collection of other books, all compatible. UltraTech is a good companion book to get.

d20 and d20M are cool, but a bit cinematic. GURPS tends to be more realistic. And quite a but deadlier, making players look for other options before pulling out phasers.

You may have heard about the complexity of GURPS, but if you use only the basic combat system (the version included in GURPS Prime Directive) it can be a quick system. When you get the GURPS core books and use the Advanced Combat System, it really slows combat down.

Character Creation is a bit involved (no where near Hero System), and SJ Games sells a downloadable character utility, and there are files available online that loads in all the new skills, advatages, racial packages and gear for use with it.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, Steve Jackson says he's halfway through reading GURPS FEDS with nothing found that would delay publication. I have no idea when he'll finish it. (If he had nothing else to do, tomorrow, but I'm sure he's as busy as I am.) Remember that once approval is given, it's at least 90 days to publication (although perhaps 30 or 60 days to e23). Assuming approval on March 1st, that would mean release in June.
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Mark Skarr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a GURPS guy and I have been for decades. I just can't stand D20, having tried it for Deadlands (blah), Heavy Gear (egads that sucked) and Mutants and Masterminds (hey, what do you know, that actually worked). But, I'm a GURPS guy, so I highly recommend it. (I'm also Mark Skarr, the Forum Pervert, over at SJGames Fora, so I'm annoying here and there.)

I'm prepping for a GURPS Supers/Prime Directive amalgam, which is why I've suddenly delved into Federation Commander.
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