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Q about tractors and drones

 
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chazrobbins
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:56 am    Post subject: Q about tractors and drones Reply with quote

Situation: Klingon Ship A is targeted by two Kzinti Drones. Klingon Ship B, which is in a different hex than Ship A, enters hex of enemy drones and tractors 2 of them. Later in the same turn, Klingon Ship A enters same hex as Klingon Ship B (which is tractoring drones targeted on Klingon Shop A). What happens? Do the drones impact Ship A even though they are tractored by Ship B?

Thanks,
Chuck
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. The drones are considered to have impacted the target ship as soon as both the drones and their target are in teh same hex.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? I thought that if the drones were tractored they could not impact? Surprised
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terryoc wrote:
Really? I thought that if the drones were tractored they could not impact? Surprised

If the drones are tractored by the target ship, they cannot impact.
IRC, when targeted by another ship and then moved into the same hex as the target (or if the target moves into the drones hex), then they impact the target.

Of course, MJW will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure, too, that Scoutdad is right about this. The rule says that if the drone and its target are in the same hex at any time, impact occurs.

It doesn't seem like it should be that way, though, does it? 10,000km across...those ships could be pretty far apart in the same hex. Plus, with all the explanation about how firing arcs still have to be obeyed by ships in the same hex as they were in the hexes before they entered the same hex...oh, well.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Thread necromancy of two years to the day!

Anyway, just to be clear: A drone held in a tractor cannot impact anything. Period. Therefore, in the OP's example, the drones will NOT impact Ship A at all. Ship B would have to release the tractors in order for the drones to impact.

Also, if Ship B does release the tractors (in the other functions phase, of course), then the drones will not impact until a movement sub-pulse. Which means that if Ship A is moving 24+1, it could get away from the drones again.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I guess I had that one all wrong. Thanks for the clarification Mike.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in fairness, the answer changed.

This was asked at a different point, and there was a much longer discussion on it. (I couldn't find it. It might have been on the Legacy BBS.) My initial answer was to say they would impact. However after much discussion (and a ruling from Steve), we got the final answer, which is that they would not impact.

BTW, the rule is in the RRB in the "star" for the first paragraph of (5D4). It is the second sentence after the the "star", but its context is a bit confused, as the rest of the paragraph is talking about tractoring impacted drones, but that half-sentence is not.
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chazrobbins
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike!
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junior
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Well, in fairness, the answer changed.

This was asked at a different point, and there was a much longer discussion on it. (I couldn't find it. It might have been on the Legacy BBS.) My initial answer was to say they would impact. However after much discussion (and a ruling from Steve), we got the final answer, which is that they would not impact.


My recollection is that the reason for the change wasn't this exact example. It was a question regarding a three-way battle in which Player A fires drones at Player B and Player C tractors the drones and shoves them into the target ship's hex.
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pinbot
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
...The rule says that if the drone and its target are in the same hex at any time, impact occurs....


It would be a lot clearer if it said that. (rev 6 idea?)

The rule says "If a seeking weapon enters the hex of its target". Nothing is said about the target entering the seeker's hex. ROW the rules indicate the seeker has to leave the hex since it can't decelerate. The HET rule doesn't help since a HET doesn't let you stay in the same hex. Physics based 'frame of reference/all motion is relative' arguments don't really cut it either since the issue could be turn radius.

I'm sure the intent seems obvious if you know it. But if you don't it seems just as plausible (and in the spirit of the game) that the clever thing to do in some cases is hop onto the seeker and force it to move away.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
BTW, the rule is in the RRB in the "star" for the first paragraph of (5D4). It is the second sentence after the the "star"...

Sorry, but I can't see a 'Star' in (5D4), period. Yes, it's the RRB6a, pdf version, page 61. Am I looking in the right place?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was referring to RRB5. In RRB6, all of the r5 stars were removed and all new r6 stars were added. As such, there is no longer a star for that rule in RRB6.

(Note that the post you quoted from is over a year old. I was obviously referring to the RRB5, as the RRB6 didn't exist yet!)
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Kang
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, that makes sense Smile Thanks Mike. I didn't realise the thread was that old.... Embarassed
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