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Tractoring an enemy ship

 
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mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:53 pm    Post subject: Tractoring an enemy ship Reply with quote

Just wanna make sure were doing this right: Am tractoring a Gorn CC with a Romulan WE. The Gorn is crippled with only a few engines and systems left.

WE paid 8 points to move(base speed of 8 ), so this reduces base speed to 0 for turn. Gorn CC paid no points to move for turn.
WE controls movement for turn. If WE accelerates, it still controls movement and moves 1 hex for impulse. If the Gorn accelerates, this will do nothing? Gorn can still Tac and HET.

If a tractored ship does pay for movement, but does not control movement for the turn, can it Emergency Decelerate to gain some shield benefit?

thanks
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
WE paid 8 points to move(base speed of 8 ), so this reduces base speed to 0 for turn. Gorn CC paid no points to move for turn.
WE controls movement for turn. If WE accelerates, it still controls movement and moves 1 hex for impulse. If the Gorn accelerates, this will do nothing?

Under normal movement rules, the WE controls movement even though no movement is made, see (5D6c) Static Situation
If the WE accelerates*, then it most definitely controls movement and the ships move in sub-pulse 4 at the discretion of the WE.
If The WE accelerates (and the CC accelerates) then the net result will still be no movement.
If the CC accelerates and the WE does not, then the CC would control the movement.

*Note that per (5D6b) The cost of acceleration or deceleration is the combined movement cost of the linked ships.

Quote:
Can the Gorn still Tac or HET?

Yes. See the first paragraph of (5D6b) ...Tactical Maneuvers (2D1) and High Energy Turns (2D2) may be used if otherwise legal.

Quote:
If a tractored ship does pay for movement, but does not control movement for the turn, can it Emergency Decelerate to gain some shield benefit?

Nothing in (2D3) precludes the use of ED by a tractored ship,so I'd say that yes it can.
Remember though that the benefits of shield reinforcement are still limited by the available batteris. In the case of the Gorn CC in the above example: if there are no non-disabled batteries available, then there is no benefit to using ED.
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mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
Quote:
WE paid 8 points to move(base speed of 8 ), so this reduces base speed to 0 for turn. Gorn CC paid no points to move for turn.
WE controls movement for turn. If WE accelerates, it still controls movement and moves 1 hex for impulse. If the Gorn accelerates, this will do nothing?

If the CC accelerates and the WE does not, then the CC would control the movement.


Really? How can the CC control movement when it initially had base speed of 0 and the WE had base speed of 8?
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Controlling movement is determined by who paid most energy tokens is it not, so it is always the WE. I thought the 'static' situation only applied where both paid the same energy tokens. (can't check at the moment, so I may be mis-remembering).

As the WE controls movement, I don't think the CC is even allowed to accelerate?
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mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Thats how I read it also.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee:
Double checked. Yep, static situation is only when both ships paid the same in energy tokens.

Still, if the effective speed is zero and the WE doesn't pay to accelerate... and the CC does (remember - he's paying 2 energy tokens - combined movement cost), then the linked ships should move.
Now, who controls that hex of movement has become the issue.
I can see both sides.
The WE has paid more energy tokens... as per (5D6) it controls movement.
The CC on the other hand, has paid more enrgy for this Impulse... does it control movement for this impulse?

The way we've always played in our group is that the CC would control movement for this Impulse by sheer force of expending more energy during this impulse.
We could be playing incorrectly (due to 20+ years of SFB experience) and if so, I expect mjw will smack me down.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question I asked a while ago touched upon this, and I sure MWest said that the non-controlling ship can only acclerate in the static situation. As that isn't the case I don't think the CC can accelerate to try and control movement.

Even if he could accelerate I think (but again can't check at the moment) that control is based on energy spent on base movement only (except the static situation again).
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If so, we've been doing it wrong for about 5 years now... Crying or Very sad

Who said SFB pseudo-speeds were more complicated??? Confused
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At home now and just had a quick check.

5D6b - "compare the number of energy points each has spent for its baseline speed."


and from my previous thread about what the non-controlling ship could do.

mwest wrote:

You can only use acceleration (or deceleration) while in the 'static' situation.



NB - whether mwest meant that literally I'm not so sure, I was wondering whether for example a tractored andro would not be allowed to accel in order to dump power.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant "competitively".

The whole "who accelerates and who decelerates" thing in (5D6c) only applies when in the "static situation", i.e. when both ships spend the same amount of energy for baseline speed. If one ship is controlling movement, it may accelerate and decelerate.

In the specific example, the WE fully controls movement. It paid 8 for its baseline speed, while the CC paid 0. Therefore, the WE controls movement. Since it can move, it has the full range of options available (e.g. acceleration and deceleration) to it, subject to the modifications (baseline speed dropped by one level; acceleration costs are for the combination).

So, given the situation of WE pays 8 for base speed 8 and CC pays 0 for base speed 0, the following are in effect while the tractor is active:
- The WE has a baseline speed of 0.
- The CC has a baseline speed of 0.
- The WE controls movement and may accelerate, but each acceleration costs 2 points of power.
- The CC may NOT accelerate (or decelerate) as it does not control movement.
- The CC may NOT perform a TAC, as it is speed 0, not stopped. (Note that the CC can use emergency deceleration to become stopped, and thus use a TAC.)
- The CC may HET, assuming it has the 5 points of power.

(All power notes assume squadron scale is being used.)

I cannot stress this enough: If you are in a ship-to-ship tractor, it is not a "static situation", and you are not controlling movement, you are screwed.
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mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Indeed. The Gorn CC was later destroyed after I tried to capture it. Gorns are Tough to defeat in a marine operation. Had to transport the few remaining Romulans marines back and destroy the ship! Sad
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. We've been doing this one wrong for a while then.
I guess we need to go over this one prior to the next session and get it right.

Thanks, Mike.
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