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Followup Poll -- Winter 2012 Tournament
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Please select one of the following opinions:
I am only interested in playing in a Standard Format Tournament.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I prefer the Standard Format, but I am still interested in playing even if a different format is selected.
60%
 60%  [ 6 ]
I am only interested in playing in a Lite Standard Format Tournament.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I prefer the Lite Standard Format, but I am still interested in playing even if a different format is selected.
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
I am only interested in playing in a Reverse Standard (aka Storey) Format Tournament.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I prefer the Reverse Standard (aka Storey) Format, but I am still interested in playing even if a different format is selected.
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 10

Author Message
JimDauphinais
Commander


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:25 am    Post subject: Followup Poll -- Winter 2012 Tournament Reply with quote

This poll will be up for about two weeks -- until at least December 5th.

Based on its results, I will select the tournament format that will be used for the next FCOL tournament, which will start on January 1st.

------------------------

Standard Format = The same format which has been used for the first three FC Online Tournaments.

Lite Standard Format = The same format that was used for the first three tournaments, but with 200-300 point squadrons (exact number to be determined) rather than 450 point squadrons.

Reverse Standard (aka Storey) Format = The same format which was used for the first three tournaments, except you pick the empire and squadron against which you will fight in all of your matches rather than the empire and squadron you will use.

------------------------

Thanks,

Jim
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 638

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is there another poll with options that lost in the last poll? Kinda reminds me of California Politics.
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JimDauphinais
Commander


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above are the top three vote getters from the last poll. Note that The Rock (Paul) voted for Standard Format in the last poll, but his vote was too late to be registered.

The vote was close last time (none of the options won a majority of the votes) and I wanted to get feedback in regard to how strongly folks felt about playing one format versus another.
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/


Last edited by JimDauphinais on Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the proposed printed ship point value multipliers for the Winter 2012 Torunament:

1.10: None
1.05: Federation and Orion Pirates
1.00: Hydran, ISC, Kzinti, LDR and Vudar
0.96: Frax, Gorn, Klingon, Lyran and Tholian
0.92: Romulan and Wyn
0.88: Seltorian

The Frax, Kzinti, Wyn and Seltorians will each move down a level due to not being selected by any player in the 3rd FCOL Tournament. 0.88 might finally give the Seltorians some love.

The ISC, LDR and Vudar will remain the same due to the unavailability of their ships in the 3rd FCOL Tournament. I would still very much like to see the ISC and Vudar added to FC Online to make things more interesting, but I am not optimistic this will be done in time for the Winter 2012 tournament.

The rest of the empires will remain the same because in the 3rd FCOL Tournament they each won at least one game that did not involve a bye or other concession without any play. In addition, the top placers were not all from the same empire.

Qualitatively, I would note that some of the weakest players played the poorest performing empire (Federation) and some of the strongest players played the best performing empire (Tholians). This makes me very reluctant to push the Federation down a level or the Tholians up a level. This said, if there is a strong outpouring in favor of lowering the Federation a level and/or raising the Tholians a level, I am willing to make such a change.

As an aside, my recollection is that Patrick and Paul have basically offered a Plasma challenge for the Winter 2012 tournament. That is to say that one of them is going to take the Gorns and the other the Romulans. This in itself promises to make the Winter 2012 FCOL Tournament interesting.
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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Krellex
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At that point value, there will be a ton of Kzinti fleets. I will make one at that price, for sure. Shocked
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I'm not really sure what Jim is trying to achieve, originally it was supposedly based on how well certain fleets did as the tourneys finished, but now the worst is not adjusted as it was played by the 'worst' players, and the best was not adjusted as it was played by the 'best' players.

As I posted elswhere, I think he has the issue of who he is handicapping fleets for - Paul/Patrick/Archer or the rest. At the moment he seems to be doing neither, but with no clear idea of what is going on.

I do think the point adjustments are to far apart, Orions were not popular at 1.05, but then it looked like they would be very poppular at 1.00. Kzinti may be the same, at 1.05 no one wants them, so if they are to appear they would seem to need be lower. Probably needs a 1.5, 1.025, 1.00 categories.

At any rate ignore me, I didn't even play last time.
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee -- If you compare the proposed adjustments to the statements I made in the tournament rules, you will see that I have not deviated from my description in regard to how point adjustments are going to be made. I specifically rechecked the description before I drafted the proposed adjustments for the Winter 2012 Tournament. Regardless, I have concluded that no matter what I do in this regard you are going to question it Wink

Seriously, I do value your opinion. However, we will have respectfully disagree with each other in regard to the granularity of the point adjustments. IMO, approximately 22.5 points per level change in a 450 point game is pretty small especially when you consider the lumpiness of the ship card choices for many of the empires.

Also, to more clearly state my primary objective, it is to keep empire selection from bunching around just a few empires due to the popularity, disdain, perceived weakness or preceived strength of certain empires. In this regard, what I have done to date has worked as I have not yet had to force a civil war match in the tournaments.

Finally, the point adjustments for the next tournament have been put forth as a proposal and I have even suggested one area where folks might want to modify it (i.e., in regard to the Federation and Tholians). I am personally not in favor of that modification, but will yield if a consensus develops in regard to that modification or any other modification that is put forth.

Fred -- The oversubscription rule will automatically kick in if too many folks think the Kzinti are underpriced. This happened in the most recent tournament with the Orions when they had a starting multiplier of 1.00.
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimDauphinais wrote:
Regardless, I have concluded that no matter what I do in this regard you are going to question it Wink


You are probably right Smile if for no other reason than I find the handicap idea interesting, but am getting a little lost on mechanics.

Quote:
However, we will have respectfully disagree with each other in regard to the granularity of the point adjustments. IMO, approximately 22.5 points per level change in a 450 point game is pretty small especially when you consider the lumpiness of the ship card choices for many of the empires.


Of course we can agree to disgree with each other, and you are putting in the time to run it, so final word is to you obviously. No disrepect meant.

I do think though that 22ish points can make quite a difference. Some empires are going to rely more on certain ship combinations for tourney play than others, and if just a few points puts those combinations out of reach then their desirability can be noticably affected. I expect that is why orions went from unpoular to popular and back again when they bounced bewteen 1.00 to 1.05. Kzinti have not yet been played at 1.05, yet in the past they have been touted as a very good tourney empire.

It also has to be kept in mind it is not just a 22pt difference, it is a much larger difference compared to those empires being made cheaper. If all other empires were 1.00 then orions/kzinti at 1.05 might look more useful, but against empires effectively getting more than 450pts.. not so much as the point difference may be 60+.
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless there is a significant change in the results of the poll by this weekend, we will be going with Standard Format for the Winter 2012 Tournament.
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will have the Winter 2012 Tournament rules and announcement up by this weekend.
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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JimDauphinais
Commander


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been delayed in getting the Winter 2012 tournament information posted. It may need to wait until next week when I am off from work.

Because of the delay, I am moving the start date back to February 1st.
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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Patrick Doyle
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Norfolk, VA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still intend to play the Gorns, though I do believe that Gorns and Romulans should have the same modifier, whatever that turn out to be.

Merry Christmas.
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick,

If Paul is comfortable with voluntarily taking the Romulans at 0.96 rather than 0.92, it works for me (the Gorns are currently at 0.96). One thing you and Paul might want to consider is posting some basic advice to less skilled players on how to deal with opponents that are flying plasma ships.

Thanks,

Jim
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the gorns dropped to 0.92 I might be temtped to join in next time and take gorn. At that point they can actually get 3 heavy cruiser hulls for once.
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The_Rock
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fleet is going to be Vulture, KE and Firehawk. If that works at 0.96 then I'll voluntarily drop to 0.96 otherwise I will pass on Patrick's otherwise generous offer.

As for advice, sure. Plasma sucks. Charge at it and force it to launch plasma or give you range 8. Once it launches enough plasma to down a shieild and do at least 15 internals, fire what you have and turn off. Otherwise just keep coming. Since plasma has to launch more than it can maintain, eventually you will be running him over.
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