Federation Commander Forum Index Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Who shoots first

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ncrcalamine
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:55 am    Post subject: Who shoots first Reply with quote

A lyran tiger ca is followed one hex directly behind by it's ally a kizinti ncl. In the same hex as the lyran are 2 enemy ships a dd, and ncl with movement priority. In sub pulse 4 the lyran and the kizinti break. The dd and ncl move into the kizinti hex.

The dd and the ncl want to shoot the kizinti and target weapons. The lyran wants to use it's esg's on the kizinti and its enemies the dd and ncl. Who shoots first because the order of shooting has a direct effect on tHe amount of targeted weapons damage.

THis happened in tonight's game.

Thanks

Nicole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1870

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes no difference, unless I'm missing something.

All fire is simultaneous - anything that was declared to fire still gets to fire whether it is destroyed or not. Those declaring aiming won't lose any weapons that can shoot if they go second, equally they can't stop enem weapons firing by going first.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ncrcalamine
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are missing the point. There were 24 shields. If the esg goes first then that is 13 more points of damage that can be targeted to weapons fro the two weapons targeting ships.
If the esg's go last then the shield absorb more of the targeted damage and the esg damage is rolled non targeted.


The total damage is still the same except for targeted skips, but the effect can be very different.

Sorry I should have explained it better.


Nicole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1870

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah - sorry didn't realise you meant who went first on just one side, I thought you meant who went first as in the enemy or me.

Order for a given side is at owners choice, so the attacker chooses a ship and fully resolves all volleys from that ship before moving on to another ship.

Again, the ship with ESG will get to choose whether to use the ESG first or second. So it can ESG then fire its directed volley or use the directed volley then ESG.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ncrcalamine
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esg ship was ally of kizinti. Lyran was using esg to hit dd and ncl. Was hitting ally because all three were in same hex. But the shooting order still mattered.

Shooting order
Ie friend enemy enemy( targeted weapons shot last hit esg damaged shield)
vs enemy enemy friend ( targeted weapons shoot first and are largely spent on fresh shield then non targeted esg hits)

Nicole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1870

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha, OK so it matters who goes first between you and enemy as the ESG will hit you as well, and weaken your shield before enemy directed fire if it has to go first. I see your point now, sorry for being so dumb up until now.

I don't think that is covered under current rules to be honest. Have to wait and see what MWest says.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ncrcalamine
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The previous post had the understanding of the situation correct. I believe esg's are the only area effect weapon in the game that hit both foes and friends at the same time.

Mike west any comments or thoughts on this circumstance?


Thanks Nicole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3488
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts? Yeah: Aw @$#&! A new loophole. Sad

On a more serious note, I am gonna say that I think the attacker should pick the order. (In your example it would be the "enemy" group.) The reason is because this way it doesn't actually change any of the rules or create a special case. The damage is just one more thing that gets allocated along the way, and the self-inflicted damage is just lumped in with all of the damage the enemy inflicted on their own.

In other words, the Lyran ship effectively "donated" damage to the Kzinti on behalf of the enemy ships.

(And I am still trying to get my head around the Kzinti and Lyrans being on the same side.)
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
m1a1dat
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 94
Location: 91320

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure by what you mean as the attacker picks the order. Since it is me too firing, and with everyone firing, who is the attacker and who the defender? Unless you mean the owner of the ESG gets to chose if he fires before or after other ships.

As for Kzinti and Lyran being on the same side, we have taken to each side having the same classes of ships (we have been using CA, CW, DW) and then rolling randomly which race each ship is. It has been fun to mix things all up sometimes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1870

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, I'm confused as to what you mean by attacker in this scenario.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3488
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's remove empires here. On one side we have Ship L and Ship Z. On the other side we have Ship F and Ship G. I am assuming that each pair is controlled by a single player to simplify the example. On one accursed impulse, Ships F and G fire on Ship Z, whilst Ship L releases an offensive ESG that hits all three ships. That is the setup.

What I am saying is that the player for Ships F and G choose the order damage is applied to Ship Z, including the ESG burst effects. In effect, what Ship L has done is "donate" the damage done to Ship Z to the player for Ships F and G.

Why? Because, really, it can go either way. Anything you want to say so that Ship L controls the timing of the ESG again Ship Z can also be used to explain why the other ships should control the timing instead. So, instead of making a special case, just lump all of the damage to Ship Z together and let the player for Ships F and G sort it all out.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group