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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klingon of Gor wrote:
I'm given to understand that Feds ran a bit slower in SFB than they do now, but I had very little experience with that game and it was long ago. But nowadays they can mostly run speed 24, and if they can do that, then it's pretty hard for whoever they're fighting to open the range. .


Getting a bit off topic but...

My memories are vague, and are based on an older set of SFB, but yes everyone paid power up front in housekeeping (4 points for cruisers) that you might under certain desperate cirmcumstances choose not to pay. That no longer exists. However, whilst all ships benefit from those extra points of power they don't all benefit equally - I certainly feel that Feds came off probably better than most with that rule loss, they have a very potent weapon that was balanced to fair degree by being unable to readily chase people down, those 4 points of power make a huge difference to them as it can go to extra chasing speed. Klingons may have gained power, but it doesn't give them any more potential speed to keep away, they could already max the speed if they needed.

I've been thinking a bit lately that Feds always seem to be the benchmark for 'testing' or 'balancing' things against, but feel that all that is showing is that Feds are very potent, not that someone else is weak.

The other thing I don't remember from my SFB days is the Fed dump all overload power on turn 1 of loading, that is a huge bonus for them as well.
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duxvolantis
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Joined: 16 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
Klingon of Gor wrote:
I'm given to understand that Feds ran a bit slower in SFB than they do now, but I had very little experience with that game and it was long ago. But nowadays they can mostly run speed 24, and if they can do that, then it's pretty hard for whoever they're fighting to open the range. .


Getting a bit off topic but...

My memories are vague, and are based on an older set of SFB, but yes everyone paid power up front in housekeeping (4 points for cruisers) that you might under certain desperate cirmcumstances choose not to pay. That no longer exists. However, whilst all ships benefit from those extra points of power they don't all benefit equally - I certainly feel that Feds came off probably better than most with that rule loss, they have a very potent weapon that was balanced to fair degree by being unable to readily chase people down, those 4 points of power make a huge difference to them as it can go to extra chasing speed. Klingons may have gained power, but it doesn't give them any more potential speed to keep away, they could already max the speed if they needed.

I've been thinking a bit lately that Feds always seem to be the benchmark for 'testing' or 'balancing' things against, but feel that all that is showing is that Feds are very potent, not that someone else is weak.

The other thing I don't remember from my SFB days is the Fed dump all overload power on turn 1 of loading, that is a huge bonus for them as well.

The big difference was not the 4 points of housekeeping because losing the phaser capacitors kinda makes up for that.

The big difference is that in SFB photons can only be armed or held with WARP power and you can only use 1 pt of Impulse and no Reactor for movement in SFB. Therefore if you take a pre-refit Fed CA you have, IIRC, 36 points of power in the form of 30 warp, 4 Impulse, 2 APR (non-warp reactors). The Fed CC had 38 power with 2 additional APR. The plus refit turns the APR into AWR (warp reactors.. can't use for movement but count as warp power for systems that require it).

So to plot your power you would do the following:
1) Flush your 4 batteries and recharge with 4 warp so reserve power qualifies as warp for unplotted move changes, overloading weapons, whatever. total power=26 warp + 4 reserve warp + 2 APR + 4 Impulse + 4 battery
2) Use the 4 battery power for housekeeping. power 26 warp + 2 APR + 4 Impulse +4 reserve warp
3) Pay 8 warp to hold photons. 18 warp + 2 APR + 4 Impulse + 4 reserver warp
4) Plot movement. 17 was a good break but you could plot up to 19 (18 warp plus 1 impulse). Max moves is 19. Now you could manipulate mid-turn speed changes to be able to go a bit faster when it is important and slower when it is less important but still you can only move 19 hexes this turn. Remaining power: 2 APR, 3 Impulse, 4 Reserve Warp.

You can use the reserve warp to accelerate during the turn but still that is only 23 moves and your batteries are now empty.

In SFB you end up needing to preplot some things like tractor beams (so you don't get schooled like a newb) and maybe transporters depending on what you plan to do and if using Electronic Warfare that will further slow you down as the Fed MUST use full ECCM (counter-countermeasures) to ensure no negative modifiers on the photon to hits so that 5 power is not really enough.

And this power plot presumes fully overloaded photons and fully charged phaser capacitors. It was not uncommon at all for a plasma boat to "come from behind" against a Fed if the first haymaker punch was a little off the mark.

Everyone was a little slower in SFB than FC, but Feds in particular were a LOT slower because of the warp requirement for photons.

Just imagine the pre-refit lollipop trying to rearm with only 15 warp power. Even just holding 4 photons reduces max movement to 15 and rearming to overloaded status just didn't happen unless you got to sit in the corner for a while.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't remember the warp requirement for photons, whether that was not in the older set of rules or my memory just fails me I don't know. But yes that would certainly slow down feds.

The phaser capacitors don't make that much difference in mitigating the housekeeping, except at the start of the game, after that you need to power up phasers with power from somewhere so those 4 points of housekeeping still make a difference.

But either way, Feds seem a lot lot more potent than they were (or at least as I remember them) in SFB. Everyone is a bit faster, but Feds gain very significantly by that.
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Klingon of Gor
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Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

storyelf wrote:

Quote:
I don't remember the warp requirement for photons, whether that was not in the older set of rules or my memory just fails me I don't know. But yes that would certainly slow down feds.


I had quite forgotten about it until duxvolantis jogged my memory, but he is in fact correct.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1955
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duxvolantis wrote:
The big difference was not the 4 points of housekeeping because losing the phaser capacitors kinda makes up for that.

The big difference is that in SFB photons can only be armed or held with WARP power

Two things here:
1) I agree about the housekeeping vs. phaser capacitors thing. I feel that, in this at least, the FC system has given with one hand and taken away with the other.
2) Photons could be held using any kind of power, not only Warp power. It is the actual warhead 'construction' - so, preloading, loading and overloading - that required actual warp power.
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