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Can you target your own drones with a drone
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ncrcalamine
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Can you target your own drones with a drone Reply with quote

In captains log 38 page 36 volley vous : part duex
The article stars you can target your own drones with drones.
The article then states Rule 4 f5c allows this. Is this true. The first sentence of the rule states you can target seeking weapon on enemy seeking weapons. It states nothing about targeting friendly weapons.

Can you target friendly drones? Or is the article mistaken.

Thank you

Nicole
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicole:
as the author of the note, here's my deductive reasoning:
First, the note refers you rule (3A3) FRIENDLY FIRE:Players cannot fire at their own ships (or other manned units)...
Drones are not manned units, so good so far.
Next we go to (4F5c) Counter-Weapons: You can target a seeking weapon on the enemy seeking weapon. The impact of any drone or plasma torpedo on another drone will destroy that drone...
While the rules specifically references the targeting of enemy seekers, it does not preclude targeting your own seekers should the situation warrant it.
Again... It seems good to go.


Also, the Command Notes are sent to the entire Federation Commander staff well in advance of publication. We get a chance to review them for errors and omissions, as well as rule violations. since this one went past both SPP and mjwest, it should be a valid tactic.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not keen on the logic of 'the rule book doesn't say I can't do it, so I can', that leads to all sorts of bad places.

I seem to remember articles/notes or whatever you call them including rule errors have been published before.

PS not read the article in question, or checked the rules myself, just commenting on that argument.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee:
I usually tend to agree that "The rules don't say I can't do it, so I can..." is usually a bad practice with a steep, slippery slope.
In this instance however, I felt justified due to the wording of rule (3A3) which specifically states that disallowed friendly fire is that directed at "manned units". Without that stipulation, the whole tactic would fall apart.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would use 5D5a to disallow targeting a friendly drone ---

If you tractor a seeking weapon which you or an ally launched, that seeking weapon becomes inert and is removed from the board ---

IIRC from SFB this was because the targeting sensors interfered with the tracking sensor on the drone --

So if your targeting sensor is focused on the drone then, then it can't track --

So if you can't tractor you can't target ---
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Mark,
The purpose of the tactic is that your enemy has grabbed your drone in a tractor and then turned to bring a fresh shield to face you.
In order to avoid hitting the fresh shield, you target your own drone that is being held in a tractor off a downed, but non-facing shield.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But tactics rely on technical abilities, (have to make sure the machine can do what your wanting), I don't believe technically it can be done --
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:
But tactics rely on technical abilities, (have to make sure the machine can do what your wanting), I don't believe technically it can be done --

Ok, example time:
Kzinti CA launches 3 drones at a Federation CA. All three impact the #2 shield. The Fed destroys two of the three during Def Fire and tractors the 3rd. Possible since the tractored seeking wepaon was not launched by hte Fed or his ally, right?
Now, the Federation CA turns to bring the #3 shield to bear against the Kzinti.
The Kzinti ship then launches his final drone of the turn. Not at a fresh shield, but at the drone that is held over the #2 shield of the damaged Federation CA.
Rule (3A3) allows this and rule (4F5c) does not prevent this.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really going a long way to read into the rules aren't you --
So here's my dive into deep end ---

If the target has captured a unit (drone/SS), then it controls the unit, then it being in a tractor would cause it to go inert --

As with an earlier discussion of boarding parties, it was determined that even though the ship had no control or boarding parties left, if the enemy didn't have enough BPs to control the ship it wasn't captured --

So my take is:
Just because a drone is in a tractor, it isn't captured and it isn't controlled so it's still a friendly unit --

Looks like a whole page of rules gonna have to be ginned up to deal with this issue ----
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never really thought about this being an issue before.

Yes, you may target your own drone with another drone.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I've done my bit on the Technical side of the issue

Now for my Tactics review:

Drone is in Tractor
Tractor keeps drone at range 1
Drones only affect what its targeted on
A second drone ties up another drone control space
Using a second drone to destroy your first drone just a waste of two drones
See no benefit to the tactic at all ----

That's my story and I'm sticking to it Smile
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just saying...
(4F5c) ...If seeking weapon A is targeted on seeking weapon B, and B impacts its target before A reaches it, then A is removed and B is treated as an impact. If A and B both reach the target of B on the same subpulse
(or if B hits A, which previously impacted and was stopped by a tractor beam), BOTH impact that shield of the target and BOTH cause damage...
Wink
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

(or if B hits A, which previously impacted and was stopped by a tractor beam), BOTH impact that shield of the target and BOTH cause damage...
Wink


If I have to use defensive fire at range 1, then it's at range 1 when the second drone hits it --
And doesn't do anything up light up space ---
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defensive fire doesn't occur at range 1.

Defensive phaser fire is resolved as range 1, but that has nothing to do with tractors.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee beat me to it.
Defensive Fire is resolved as if at range 1, but the actual impact event takes place close enough to cause damge to the ship when the drones explode.
24 points of damage... 12 from each drone. The original, tractored drone and the newly arriv ed drone targeted on the tractored drone.
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