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First Play of F&E

 
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mattruh
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:02 am    Post subject: First Play of F&E Reply with quote

So, I had a chance last night to play my first ever game of Federation and Empire. My friend Brandon and I choose to try out scenario 601 The Wind. Due to time constraints we only got through the first player turn of the first turn. He wanted to play Kzinti and got the Alliance, while I played the coalition. The turn took about 2 hours or so to play. By the end of it I had managed to destroy the Battlestations in hexes 0701, 0703, 0803, and 1004. About half of the ships he deployed in the area had been destroyed or crippled. I had to send a rather large amount of my force back to bases in Lyran territory for repairs. It was very fun, but I have a few questions.

First, when exactly is SIDS used? Only for directed damage on bases?
Second, about strategic movement. I remember reading that only ships that have not moved can use strategic movement. However, it also says that newly repaired ships may get free strategic movement. Does that only apply to ships repaired in the shipyard phase? Or does it also count for ships that have retrogarded and were then repaired by repair ships or the repair tug during the field repair phase?
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jmt
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 394
Location: Plano, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: First Play of F&E Reply with quote

NRB handy, but I'll try to address your questions. Folks, please feel free to expand and/or revise this post.

mattruh wrote:
So, I had a chance last night to play my first ever game of Federation and Empire. My friend Brandon and I choose to try out scenario 601 The Wind. Due to time constraints we only got through the first player turn of the first turn. He wanted to play Kzinti and got the Alliance, while I played the coalition. The turn took about 2 hours or so to play.


For a first time, that's pretty good - I gather you were using just FnE 2012 rules.

Quote:
By the end of it I had managed to destroy the Battlestations in hexes 0701, 0703, 0803, and 1004. About half of the ships he deployed in the area had been destroyed or crippled. I had to send a rather large amount of my force back to bases in Lyran territory for repairs. It was very fun, but I have a few questions.


That is very respectable - I think that the Kzin either didn't put up a fight or he wasted his ships defending doomed BATS. The Kzin must husband their resources for the future and this usually means fighting only when you have to. Wink

Quote:
First, when exactly is SIDS used? Only for directed damage on bases?


There's a subject for a few term papers! Here are a few points I've learned:


  • The attacker can only direct on a station for a single SIDS (and maybe one more for a G attack); that means its up to the defender to take the rest of them.
  • With expansion rules, the attacker can take down more SIDS steps with
    a Special Attack Force (SAF).
  • Taking a SIDS step allows the defender to absorb 4 (or so) damage points without loosing combat effectiveness.


Consider a BATS defended by a FF (to allow the defender to set his part of the BIR) that takes 12 points of damage. 4 points can be absorbed by crippling the FF, leaving 8 points to distribute. If you take 6 on the fighters, you reduce your BATS total COMPOT. If you take 2 SIDS, then you absorb the damage but maintain the BATS total COMPOT.

This is an excessively simple example, as a determine attacker will probably have enough ships to pop the BATS in one shot - or will at least have a good BATS busting force (~ 32 COMPOT + Scout and/or a Troop ship).

Quote:
Second, about strategic movement. I remember reading that only ships that have not moved can use strategic movement. However, it also says that newly repaired ships may get free strategic movement. Does that only apply to ships repaired in the shipyard phase? Or does it also count for ships that have retrogarded and were then repaired by repair ships or the repair tug during the field repair phase?


Yes. If you've operationally moved a ship, you can't use strategic movement.
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mattruh
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Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But do I have to use SIDS? A Kzinti base has a combat value of 12. So, to cripple it straight up, I need to do 24 points of damage. A SIDS step is 18 damage, correct? If I have enought damage, could I just go for a direct cripple instead of scoring SIDS?
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jmt
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 394
Location: Plano, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattruh wrote:
But do I have to use SIDS? A Kzinti base has a combat value of 12. So, to cripple it straight up, I need to do 24 points of damage. A SIDS step is 18 damage, correct? If I have enought damage, could I just go for a direct cripple instead of scoring SIDS?


SIDS doesn't give the BATS more damage points, it just lets it take it in 4-point chunks rather than have minus points. For example, not counting the fighter factors:


  • A BATS takes 12 points to cripple, which is 3 SIDS steps of 4 points each.
  • A crippled BATS doesn't get any SIDS steps.
  • A Starbase takes 36 points to cripple, which is 8 SIDS steps of 4.5 points each.
  • A crippled Starbase takes 18 points to destroy, which is 4 SIDS steps of 4.5 points.


You *don't* have to take SIDS, it is just an option for the defender.
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mattruh
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotcha. I think I get it. Now, if I am the attacker, I can also direct damage the base. If I am attacking the base, and have 26 damage, I can criple it directly, right? If I have less than that, but more 18, I can force him to take a SIDS. Or I can just have him take damage normally, and let it fall where it will, correct?
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jmt
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 394
Location: Plano, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattruh wrote:
Gotcha. I think I get it. Now, if I am the attacker, I can also direct damage the base. If I am attacking the base, and have 26 damage, I can criple it directly, right? If I have less than that, but more 18, I can force him to take a SIDS. Or I can just have him take damage normally, and let it fall where it will, correct?


If you direct damage on the BATS, you need 36 points of damage to cripple it - double for direct damage (or 26 points if you have a Mauler). With that, you can directly cripple it, yes.

If you have less than that, you can direct for a SIDS step, requiring 8 (without mauler) or 4 (with mauler). If you can't pop it, it might be best to just "let it fall" and see how many SIDS steps the defender will take.

If the defender takes 2 SIDS steps (for 8 points) before taking the fighters to keep the BATS at full COMPOT, swoop in with a G ship. It can hit the BATS to take the last SIDS step and cripple the BATS - forcing the defender to loose 3 fighter factors (as they are now homeless) in addition to all the damage he's already taken and depriving him of the BATS scout functions.
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SFU_FEAR
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Joined: 28 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmt wrote:
If you direct damage on the BATS, you need 36 points of damage to cripple it - double for direct damage (or 26 points if you have a Mauler).


A BATS is 12/6(6) (12 on the front, 6 on the back and 6 fighters). Directing on a BATS only needs 12*2=24 to cripple (14 with a 10 point mauler). Another 12 would be needed to outright destroy it. You don't need to score the total damage to kill it. Just want to clarify that.
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jmt
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Location: Plano, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the correction, Mike - I was confused thinking of the total COMPOT (including fighters).
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SFU_FEAR
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you had the 24 points without a mauler, you could have crippled the base and then there would have been 3 fighter factors that would be left without a base as the BATS is 6(3) on the back. These three fighter factors could have gone to any carrier or base that could hold them in the hex, otherwise they would have been minus points (308.2). Remember, they will be only minus points if the BATS was directed on, not voluntarily damaged. (308.23)
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wilway
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Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I know why mattruh (and me) were confused.

Rule 308.811 states that SIDS requires 18 points to direct, but rule 302.615 says a directed SIDS attack requires 9 points.

Which is correct? Or am I just reading this wrong. Please explain.
Thank you in advance.
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SFU_FEAR
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Joined: 28 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starbase Incremental Damage System (SIDS) on a starbase are such that the 36 damage points are divided by 8, equaling 4.5, this is doubled to apply one SIDS for the 9 points. If using directed damage this is doubled by the double damage rules for directed damage for the 18 points listed in (308.811). If a mauler is used the 9 points is used until the mauler runs out of damage like with a CW mauler. Or fully with a CA mauler for the full 9 points.

If a defender applies a SIDS to himself then it is only worth 4.5 points.

This is what makes Starbases such tough nuts to crack.

For BATS the number is 4 with 3 SIDS total on the front and none on the back.

Hope that helps!
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wilway
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Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, I understand now.

Thanks for all the help!
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