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Mauler issues
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Kang wrote:
terryoc wrote:
The mauler arc does have to be consistent, for compatibility with SFB.

With respect, Terry, why? It's a different game.

Because it's the same universe.


So why can't my Klingon cruisers fire all phasers down the rear line?


Same universe shouldn't dictate (and hasn't in reality dictated) such things. Each game can keep the same concepts whilst fitting in with the philosophy of each game - fiddly SFB, streamlined FC.

Apart from that you need to account for the differences in game system, 4 sub pulses and 8 firing opportunities makes the SB mauler arc ludicrous.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a compromise at least merge the 3 arcs into a single arc. It still isn't FA, but at least gets rid of all the baggage of movement limits, and helps them in a fire once every 4 sub pulse system.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
As a compromise at least merge the 3 arcs into a single arc. It still isn't FA, but at least gets rid of all the baggage of movement limits, and helps them in a fire once every 4 sub pulse system.

Now that is a specific recommendation that could work. Note that this is not actually changing the arc. However, it is using the arc(s) that exist and simplifying the application.

It won't be an easy sell, but this is actually the idea I always been planning to push when the time is right.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Kang wrote:
terryoc wrote:
The mauler arc does have to be consistent, for compatibility with SFB.

With respect, Terry, why? It's a different game.

Because it's the same universe.

Again with respect, but what difference does that make? Many of the weapons in the game have had changes when they were 'ported' over to FC: The ESG works nothing like in SFB; the PPD doesn't exactly; many aspects of plasmas are missing (quite rightly imo! PPTs stopped me playing plasma races completely in SFB), photons too (no prox warheads, only two overload states) - the list doesn't stop there.

Not that I am arguing with any of those 'ports' - far from it; I love the game system and the way things have been ported over. But the 'same universe' argument does not, in and of itself, mean that FC has to be compatible with SFB. In fact in many ways it is not, as we have seen.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The universe uses a common knowledgebase, which is why the arc cannot be changed. It also doesn't really need to be, and if it were changed, the mauler would work very differently and would be used very differently. The games must be effectively consistent.

We left some stuff out (maulers being one thing we left out) to simplify the game and get rid of dirt. That doesn't mean we can change other things for other goals. Removing rules is easier than changing them. The ESG rules were simplified but produced the same results. Changing the mauler arc would produce different results, and cannot be done.

Combining the arcs won't happen, but giving you a simpler way to choose one of them could.

And can't means can't, not won't. Sure, I created the universe and can change what I want... NOT. I cannot change some things for several reasons. Universe consistency is required by our contract with Paramount. I can do an alternate timeline, but not one that looks like the movies. Players get upset when I change things, so I "can't" change things if that upsets players.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
Combining the arcs won't happen, but giving you a simpler way to choose one of them could.

Given the limited firing opportunities in Federation Commander, combining the firing arcs and letting you chose which you want to use are functionally equivalent. That is definitely not the case in SFB, but can be in Federation Commander.

But, I don't care about the semantics as long as we get rid of the whole listing from side to side mechanics from Federation Commander/Borders of Madness. And it is a discussion for another time, anyway.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I was wondering about the mauler rules is if, should the time come for them to be more "formally" published via Borders of Madness, would any rules be added in to cover the kind of shock effects that firing the mauler cannon inflicts on the unit itself?

I'm not necessarily suggesting that the shock rules from SFB would need to be ported over; but perhaps some sort of built-in limitation on the amount of times you can fire one safely in a given scenario. (Since there is no way to cap the per-turn firing amount the way you can with a New Jersey and its photons, some sort of shots-per-battle limit could have a similar you-can-only-fire-this-much-with-this-weapon-before-it-breaks-your-ship dynamic, albeit from another angle.)
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well have a checkoff track or maybe coupons.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So why can't my Klingon cruisers fire all phasers down the rear line?


Mike did do a set of BoM rules for the Klingon arcs. So if you're using BoM, they can. Although the cross-deck wing arcs are more useful than firing rearward IMHO.
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