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Phasers and uniforms. Too wimpy?

 
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gurps_gm
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Phasers and uniforms. Too wimpy? Reply with quote

I am a long time GURPS player and GM. I am also a big fan of the SFU/Star Trek. I've been GMing a GPD game at my home and at various local conventions since 2008. One of my friends has pointed that the weapons and armor in GPD look like they are less formidable than their Tech Level 12 equivalents in GURPS Ultra Tech for GURPS Fourth Edition. For example, a Phaser 2 set on disintegration ability isn't nearly as potent as a disintegrator in GURPS Ultra Tech. A disintegrator pistol has a Damage of 6dx6 (∞) cor or corrosive. In GPD a Phaser 2 does 4d(3) burn.

The Star Fleet Uniform is also not as strong as a comparable armor in GURPS Ultra Tech. The Star Fleet Uniform has a DR 8/2 (vs imp) while a Tech Level 12 armor, energy cloth, which can pass for clothing, has a DR 30*.

I suspect when the GPD was upgraded from 3rd to 4th edition, the gear was overlooked. Will there be any changes to the GPD books?
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FockeWulfe
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Joined: 19 Aug 2013
Posts: 6
Location: Little Elm ,TX ,United States

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of me feels like it's not something likely to get changed any time soon but here is a proposal. If you are finding the equipment too weak/wrong why don't you just substitute out certain stats.

Like making the Star Fleet Uniform out of Energy Cloth, or simply nudging the phaser-2's damage so that it feels more 'right'.

I mean, that is the beauty of role playing games, if your group doesn't like certain parts of the game, you guys can always change/ignore it in your campaign.
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Gimp
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 13 Feb 2013
Posts: 43
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's far easier with GURPS Prime Directive, as you can simply take what you want from other GURPS books, and run with them.

GURPS was created as a generic system, while GURPS Prime Directive was designed to fit the SFU as it is allowed within their contract.

I don't have a problem with the uniforms being such light armor. It fits the way things ran in the TV series, while adding the option to run with heavier armor.

With the standard wear uniform being light armor, having the weapons less powerful than what standard GURPS suggests fits, as well.

A marine in a shirt had to worry about a thrown spear in the series, while using GURPS' armor 30 cloth would make that meaningless.
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gurps_gm
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have kicked around the idea for some time. I am working on a file for GURPS Character Assistant.

Gimp, the spear in the TOS is big. The kind that Romans would've used a ballista to shoot it. Though they would've made the point better. OK, that's hyperbole. Still, the big shaggy primitives had plenty of strength to throw it at a reasonable distance. Those same guys tried to crack open shuttlecraft with a bolder and later nearly succeeded in keeping the shuttlecraft on the ground.

OTOH maybe Energy Cloth is too strong. Monocrys?
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Gimp
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 13 Feb 2013
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Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big spears are really big, but not the only spears or other primitive weapons that crunch crew in TOS. Most memorable primitive weapon, possibly, but not alone in crew crunching.

I prefer the episode where all of the weapons are changed to primitive styles and Sulu goes swashbuckling.
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gurps_gm
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gimp wrote:


I prefer the episode where all of the weapons are changed to primitive styles and Sulu goes swashbuckling.


You're confused two episodes. The swashbuckling Sulu was in "The Naked Time". The hand weapon one was called "day of the dove."
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Gimp
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 13 Feb 2013
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Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sulu was whacked out and 'swashbucklng' in Day of the Dove, too. Captured the Klingon girl, etc... Scotty finding the Scottish basket hilt was another prime moment.

Lots of good melee weapon love in TOS.
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gurps_gm
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gimp wrote:
Sulu was whacked out and 'swashbucklng' in Day of the Dove, too. Captured the Klingon girl, etc... Scotty finding the Scottish basket hilt was another prime moment.

Lots of good melee weapon love in TOS.
That was not Sulu. That was Chekov. Sulu was relatively calm in that episode. He even pointed out Chekov was an only child.

Ultra Tech melee weapons can made to cut through an armored Star Fleet uniform. For example a monowire-enhanced sword. See GURPS Ultra Tech p.163.
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Nerroth
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be worth bearing in mind that in the SFU, Marines wear more prominent gear, as shown in the cover art for the two Star Fleet Marines modules:





I'm not sure if that kind of body armour has been statted up in any of the currently-supported versions of Prime Directive, however. (Perhaps it might be worth asking over on the PD section of the BBS?)
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Gimp
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 13 Feb 2013
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Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gurps_gm wrote:
Gimp wrote:
Sulu was whacked out and 'swashbucklng' in Day of the Dove, too. Captured the Klingon girl, etc... Scotty finding the Scottish basket hilt was another prime moment.

Lots of good melee weapon love in TOS.
That was not Sulu. That was Chekov. Sulu was relatively calm in that episode. He even pointed out Chekov was an only child.

Ultra Tech melee weapons can made to cut through an armored Star Fleet uniform. For example a monowire-enhanced sword. See GURPS Ultra Tech p.163.

That's right! Thanks! It's obviously been too long since I watched that episode.

I've been watching through TOS from the beginning with my daughter, and her school & work schedules keep throwing things off.

The SFU allows for troops to wear more than just uniforms, but uniforms will still fit for many Prime Directive missions. You don't always want to look like you're ready to fight.

We've run many Prime Directive missions in medium combat gear, but wound up in several others in standard uniforms. Sometimes they have full combat gear, complete with pulse phasers, but a few times they had to go with phaser-1's because there wasn't supposed to be any combat action (ex: at a peace conference or on shore leave). They've even gone undercover using civilian commercial grade armors.

I tend to avoid heavy combat armor because it's bulky, and it means really heavy weapons are likely to show up to pose a reasonable threat to the team. We're playing Y167, so heavy combat armor is really heavy. It's also really bulky, and so normally only assigned for heavy assault troops instead of a Prime Team that has to stay flexible and less encumbered.

Prime Directive gives far more options than just the standard uniforms, but having the option to adventure in those uniforms can add a lot of diversity to the game.
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phdillman
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
It might be worth bearing in mind that in the SFU, Marines wear more prominent gear, as shown in the cover art for the two Star Fleet Marines modules:





I'm not sure if that kind of body armour has been statted up in any of the currently-supported versions of Prime Directive, however. (Perhaps it might be worth asking over on the PD section of the BBS?)


In PD1, these would be Assault Armor. (p.108 Prime Directive stock number 5801)
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gurps_gm
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am looking towards more towards standardization. That's why I brought this up.
In GURPS you can have characters from different settings in the same game.
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Gimp
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 13 Feb 2013
Posts: 43
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That becomes a GM's call, then. When I run GURPS, I make sure people know what is allowed or not. I had one player who brouht in a combat knife using other GURPS books for the tech to our Prime Directive game. It could slice through heavy combat armor with ease. I simply said 'No.' as it does not fit the setting.

Allowing anything from any setting can work if the GM wants to put up with it, but it would not be anywhere close to the Star Fleet (or Starfleet) Universe. GURPS allows powered armor, mecha, nano-tech, and all sorts of sci-fi goodness to be used as the GM sees fit to allow, but too much crossover dilutes the setting.

If th GM wants to allow fancier armor and weapons tech in place of Prime Directive material, that is their perogative, but it is not going to play out to match the stories it is based on.
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