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Playing without Drones
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
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Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, no problem. I'm kind of pendantic when it comes to Trek-tech stuff.
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junior
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fusilier wrote:
However, they only used photon torpedoes at warp, not phasers. According to the TNG technical manual the casing of the photon torpedo contains a warp-sustainment drive, not a true warp drive. A warp field is created by the firing ship, and the torpedo sustains that field for a short interval (like a capacitor holding a charge) long enought to hit the target.


TMP may mark the start of this trend. As I recall, when the Enterprise is caught in the Warp tunnel (don't remember the techno-babble term off-hand) near the start of the film, Kirk gives the order to fire the phasers but Decker insists on using the Torpedoes due to some heretofore unknown connection between the warp engines and the weapons.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was an unstable wormhole the Enterprise was caught in.

They said that the ship's phasers were redesigned to get their power from the warp engines. Since the warp engines had to be shut down to destabilize the wormhole, the phasers wouldn't work on the asteroid. Instead, Decker ordered photons to be used. They did not get their power from the warp engines.
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OGOPTIMUS wrote:
defurusu wrote:
The Franz Joseph publication on which the original designs were based included missiles/drones, so they were included in some of the earliest ship designs by ADB.


This still eludes me. I recently purchased the first printing (maybe 2nd) of the 1st edition in 1975 (vinyl cover and all) and there are no ships besides the Fed DN, CA, DD/SC, and Tug in it, just like my 20th anniversary edition, and none of them have anything but phasers and photons.

Optimus: Are you referring to the Star Fleet Techncial Manual, or the Star Fleet Battle Manual? The Tech Manual only had the DN/CA/DD-SC/Tug in it. The Battle Manual; however, included the Klingon / Romulan / and Tholian ships.
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Battle Manual is unknown to me. A while back someone was claiming that the table of contents was actually filled out at one point, but I don't ever think it was.

What is the Battle Manual? I'm guessing it's not by Franz Joseph.
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Sneaky Scot
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Balance of Terror" was not the only episode plasma torpedoes appeared in. There was another where the command staff all started aging prematurely and forgetting everything, leaving a Commodore who seemed to know nothing about starships or combat in charge (can't think how he got to that rank). Just as the Enterprise is being pasted by the Romulans, a cure is discovered, and Kirk re-appears on the bridge and saves the day by bluffing his way through the Romulan Warbirds.

There was also "The Enterprise Incident" where Kirk steals a cloaking device form the Romulans who were flying Kestral class ships, but I don't remember if that one involved any flying plasma.
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junior
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot about the one where everyone ages.

"The Enterprise Incident" doesn't include any actual weapons fire as I recall.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OGOPTIMUS -

The Star Fleet Battle Manual was the game system published by Lou Zocchi. It pre-dates SFB by a year or two. It's an interesting game but wasn't anywhere near as well thought out as SFB, nor did it play as well (thus SFB's success and SFBM's obscurity).

SFBM BoardGameGeek Page
SFBM Tribute Page
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Magnum357
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Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm probably going to regret stating this, but I like to think SFB/FC as a different universe compared to Star Trek. Star Trek has a lot of inconsistancies from one episode to another that if you try to make sense of it, it still doesn't totally work out right. Here is a quote that someone made from another message board that I thought was funny yet quite true about Star Trek. I don't know who stated it, but thought it was a good statement nontheless...

"Why Star Trek is Fiction...

I just love reading all of the ranting rationalizations to cover up
the fact that the guy(s) who wrote this weeks episode have no idea
where the "guns" were in last weeks episode. ...and from your other
post, what's wrong with a 300+ meter bird o' prey hovering over that
whaler or the 50 (or so) meter bird o' prey that they climbed out of
sinking in SF bay. They're both canon, right?"

Anyway. SFB and FC have quite a bit of differences (and history) compared to Star Trek and maybe that is a good thing. As for Drones and Plasma flying at warp speeds, I know in SFB, ships, Fighters and Drones were flying at Tactical Warp speeds, but I thought I read somewhere in Federation Commander (under the old SFU Legacy website) that SVC kinda hinted at the ships/weapons in FC combating at Sublight speeds (which actually makes a little more since to me personally). I guess it doesn't really matter though, a 10,000 KM hex is a 10,000 KM hex and and long as you enjoy playing Federation Commander, it doesn't really matter that much.
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junior
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to expect a certain amount of comparisons between the two. There are a lot of people who got the game only because there were some ships that looked awfully familiar (although I don't believe that the famous Fed CA itself is on any of the FedCom covers). People who aren't familiar with the SFU look at the Fed BC on the cover of Klingon Border and instantly think, "Star Trek game!" The two ships are obviously Federation and Klingon vessels, and there's no point in pretending that people don't instantly make the connection.

So a certain amount of discussion on these topics is reasonable. People will be curious as to why certain things were introduced. Missiles never appeared in TOS (or later series), and iirc Klingons never used phasers (only disruptors). So people are going to ask questions, and it's good to know how and why these systems appear where they do in the game.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"So a certain amount of discussion on these topics is reasonable. People will be curious as to why certain things were introduced."

Absolutely. It's a good way to bring new people in and besides, it's fun to talk about.


"Missiles never appeared in TOS (or later series)..."

Actually there were missiles, even in TOS (but not from Klingons). The asteroid ship Yonada fired a spread of nuclear-tipped missles at the Enterprise on their first approach. I think there may have been another case in TOS, but I could also be wrong.

We're sounding less and less like a 'Rules Question' in this thread. Should we move it to 'General Discussions'?
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tootalltipton
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Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Location: knoxville tn

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it makes you feel better, the Ferengi used a drone in TNG. Forget the title but it had to do with a wormhole they thought was permanent, but turned out to have the same entrance, but different exits.

Also in the first movie, Uhura reports she's ready to launch a communications drone with all records of their encounter so far and Decker tells her to delay as long as possible as the drone won't escape the tractor beam.

I'm Joe Tipton, and I endorsed this CAD+.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
It was an unstable wormhole the Enterprise was caught in.

They said that the ship's phasers were redesigned to get their power from the warp engines. Since the warp engines had to be shut down to destabilize the wormhole, the phasers wouldn't work on the asteroid. Instead, Decker ordered photons to be used. They did not get their power from the warp engines.

The thing has always been with Trek writers that they make it up as they go along. Although various writing aids were issued to help writers stick with the 'rules' of the Trek universe, still those rules get broken. A couple of examples.

TNG 'Relics' - they use transporters through shields
TOS - the episode where Sulu and his landing party are stranded on a freezing planet and they can't use the transporters. Shuttles, anyone?
Photons DO get their power from Warp engines [and not just in SFB] - Kirk at one point asks for full overloads but Sulu objects 'but sir, that will use all the power from our warp engines...'

In short, it's fine for them to break the rules as long as it makes for an interesting storyline....

Then they end up having to explain away all the inconsistencies. That's what I love so much about the SFU - there are few inconsistencies because the Steves and the fans have together worked hard to keep it that way.
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USS Enterprise
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be a little illogical, but couldn't you just keep the Drones and convert them to a direct fire weapon (The issue was moving pieces, not Star Trek canon right?) I do think that the damage should be consistant at any range it is fired (But I'm not sure it should be 12?) I'd just recommend leaving the damage at 12 at all ranges but have the accuracy reduced by 1 from the Photon (Example: If a Photons accuracy is 1-3 at range 8, the Drone's accuracy at range 8 would be 1-2) They couldn't be overloaded and would be energy free, but could run out of ammunition at one point. If they're still too powerful even with the inaccuracy, you could allow defensive fire to destroy them before impact.

Another option would be to merely convert the Drone Racks to your primary heavy weapon (Such as Photons) or Phasers. The only issue is see is energy. Maybe just let it shoot for free (Very illogical I know) but use an ammuniton box or (A little more logical) increase starting energy (But you'd have to do it for non-drone races too) or just leave energy as is.
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Dal Downing
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Joined: 06 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big E, If you want to look at removing Drones in your own games nothing is really stopping you. As a matter of fact a fairly simple and straight up conversion is available for Klingon's and Feddies.

On Fed Ships just convert Drones to Probe Lauchers and let it go. It also makes a sort of logical sense for the Feds to carry more reasearch equipment.

As far as Klingons go, convert them back to Shuttle Boxes since historically all Klinks did for the most part was slap a Drone Rack in half of their Shuttle bays in the First Place. This will now give a D7 the same number of Shuttles that a Fed CA has.

Orions that rule is already covered so there is no point in going into it again.

The ones that will come up with the short end of the stick will be the Kzinti. There really is not a quck and dirty conversion for them but if you were to replace them with weapons I would limit them to Phaser 2 and then get creative on the firing arcs because simply making them 360 Degrees may be to good of a deal.
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