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Federation Saber Dance?
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Federation Saber Dance? Reply with quote

I was thinking, why couldn't the feds do the same thing as klingons? So I developed this tactic which can be used solo or to negate enemy saber Dancing.

Assuming your ship has four photons, load, overload, and hold two. The other two are used for this manuver: Fire one each turn, while the other is in the preloading phase. Hit the enemy with your one non overloaded Saber Dance Photon when he uses his distruptors on you. This way, you maintain enough photons to fight while discouraging his attemps to weaken your shield.

I'll post Saber Dances for some other races soon to, but what do you think of this one?
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TJolley
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's tough for the Federation to Saber Dance when thier Heavy weapons are FA only and their ships have the turning radius of a planet
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pneumonic81
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Joined: 23 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not to mention they cant hit the broad side of a barn
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If at speed zero, they would have a good turn mode, and that would also help with only FA arcs. And while it may be difficult for them to hit, when it does hit, it does maxiumum damage.
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TJolley
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At speed 0, they are sitting ducks and dead. Let's see..I will have plasmas or drones..and you aren't moving...and have a crappy to-hit beyond range 8..oh yea..go speed 0 Fed...go Speed 0 Smile
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My tactic, which isnt always 100% sucessful, is to fully overload photons and then chase my target down. Usually they dont want to be close so they run. If they are running often they cant shoot very well. Then it becomes a chasing game.

The kzinti I fight often will chuck drones at me but 4 drones are easily handled with an NCA. If I can manage to duck into range 8, even for a second, then I will have a 50% chance of crushing a shield and doing some minor internals. I probably wont kill them so after I fire I really have to book it. I try to arrange my fireing opportunity at the end of a turn to lessen the time when I wont have Photons. If you do it right you will only be down for 9 impulses. Thats right, just 9 impulses. So book it at 24+1 and you should be fine.
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TJolley
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pneumonic81 wrote:
My tactic, which isnt always 100% sucessful, is to fully overload photons and then chase my target down. Usually they dont want to be close so they run. If they are running often they cant shoot very well. Then it becomes a chasing game.


But that isn't a Federation Saberdance..that is a valid Fed tactic. The question is can the Fed perform the Klingon saberdance. I say no way due to poor maneuverability and poor heavy weapon fire arcs, and poor long-range accuracy of the Photon.

The Fed wants to power up, hold photons, and close in to use phaser 1's and get close enough to get a decent chance for the photons to hit.

Klingon Saber Dancing is to keep the range open and use manevuer and great fire arcs, and great to-hit to wear your enemy down over multiple turns.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJolley wrote:
At speed 0, they are sitting ducks and dead. Let's see..I will have plasmas or drones..and you aren't moving...and have a crappy to-hit beyond range 8..oh yea..go speed 0 Fed...go Speed 0 Smile


Well, obviosly this tactic wouldn't work on a plasma ship. But drones are eaisly destroyed by a fed with many phasers.


TJolley wrote:
pneumonic81 wrote:
My tactic, which isnt always 100% sucessful, is to fully overload photons and then chase my target down. Usually they dont want to be close so they run. If they are running often they cant shoot very well. Then it becomes a chasing game.


But that isn't a Federation Saberdance..that is a valid Fed tactic. The question is can the Fed perform the Klingon saberdance. I say no way due to poor maneuverability and poor heavy weapon fire arcs, and poor long-range accuracy of the Photon.

The Fed wants to power up, hold photons, and close in to use phaser 1's and get close enough to get a decent chance for the photons to hit.

Klingon Saber Dancing is to keep the range open and use manevuer and great fire arcs, and great to-hit to wear your enemy down over multiple turns.


Okay, so the tactic doesn't work as well with feds. But you have to fight fire with fire sometimes.
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJolley wrote:
pneumonic81 wrote:
My tactic, which isnt always 100% sucessful, is to fully overload photons and then chase my target down. Usually they dont want to be close so they run. If they are running often they cant shoot very well. Then it becomes a chasing game.


But that isn't a Federation Saberdance..that is a valid Fed tactic. The question is can the Fed perform the Klingon saberdance. I say no way due to poor maneuverability and poor heavy weapon fire arcs, and poor long-range accuracy of the Photon.

The Fed wants to power up, hold photons, and close in to use phaser 1's and get close enough to get a decent chance for the photons to hit.

Klingon Saber Dancing is to keep the range open and use manevuer and great fire arcs, and great to-hit to wear your enemy down over multiple turns.


Its not exactly saber dancing, but it isnt over running either. the basic tactic is to dip into range 8, take a shot, then run for 9 impulses.

I play Lyran more then anything these days and have done my fair share of saber dancing, That kind of tactic doesnt really work for the fed.
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silent bob
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont talk to me about Lyrans. damn ESG. and same weapons generally as the klingon anyway. cant fly past the lyrans either unless you want 40 damage into one shield Sad
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your Federation tactic pneumonic81, I'll try it next time I use them.

And the ESG is anoying. (by-by Kzinti Cruiser, by-by Stingers (two ESG expiriences I've had Crying or Very sad ))
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pneumonic81 wrote:
My tactic, which isnt always 100% sucessful, is to fully overload photons and then chase my target down. Usually they dont want to be close so they run. If they are running often they cant shoot very well. Then it becomes a chasing game.


So does any fight vs. Feds degenerate into a simple game of avoiding the Fed's FA arc, perhaps brushing the range-8 bracket to try to tempt him to fire, then either breaking off a la saber dance if he does not, or closing the range if he does?

It's either that or resign yourself to being chased across the board by the fella, like pneumonic likes to do.

What counters do other players have for this?
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jmt
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In SFB, the "run 'em down" tactic has to deal with transport mines and NSM. Without those in FC, you have to use other tactics. Those basically are two: get behind the Fred or force him to turn away (which is getting behind him using his power Smile )

Most ships in the game can outmaneuver a flathead, so if you find yourself in his front arc, run and jink to get out of it (while plinking at him to keep him occupied and whittle down his shields). If your maneuver is lower, things get harder. Kzin (drone users) and plasma chuckers can do things to force the Fred to turn away - everyone else would have to rely on shuttles.

The worst case is a duel on a stationary map; if you get caught in a corner, you've had it.
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pneumonic81
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played Fed probably the most, yes they are difficult to manuver. But i find in a 150 pt duel, the Fed NCA is more then cabable of keeping up once those overloads are finished. Especially in FC.

The allocation looks something like this:

8 into holding photons, 16 into movement and 14 left over for accelerating and phasers.

Drone Defense:
For drone defenses you can fire your own drones, however DO NOT wait for the last minute to do this or you might be eating your own drones PLUS his. You can also use your ADDs, and of course phasers. Also because of the order of fireing, you can fire the ADD, and if they miss you get another chance with phasers and tractors. Another good use of phasers is to use up the 2 PH-3s at range 1, if you get lucky. This will give you a good chance at killing them before they even get into your hex. If you destroy them, good work. If not then a single Ph-3 will kill them when they enter your hex. If you have to wait for the range zero shot then you will have to use 2 PH-3 anyway for the gaurenteed kill.

Plasma Defense
If your fighting a plasma chucker, then you will need to allocate differently. The good news is, at 24 they wont hit you very often. If your approaching one, do it obliquely to you can turn away fast and begin running.

Otherwize your good to go as a fed. Just remeber your not going to hit very often. Last time I played my first volly hit with 1 photon. By the time I was overloaded again (I ran for about 10 impulses) the guy had repaired that damage. The good news is, the next volley hit with 3 photons, which carved a nice pretty hole in his ship.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had some success with this tactic for the Fed. If the opponent lets you get away with it, hold your fire until Impulse 8 (while outrunning drones, etc.). Also, have your photons loaded standard. On Imp. 8, unload every Ph-1 you can and fire either all or half of your photons. Do this against a saber dancing opponent and you might just be able to down a shield and do some internals. Then you only have 9 Impulses until the photons that were fired are ready to go again. The Ph-1s will be ready on the next Impulse if they are needed.
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