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Seltorian Secret?
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Seltorian Secret? Reply with quote

So what's this big secret the Seltorians have that forced the Klingons to eradicate them after the ISC Echelon of Judgement destroyed their Hiveship? That is, if it's even been documented. Might be one of those "someone will write a story about this later" type comments meant to inspire us to contribute to the SFU (or as a bookmark for SVC or SPP to come back to one day).

This fact is mentioned in the official Timeline (find it via the site index on starfleetgames.com) and in the rulebook for Tholian Attack.

If the powers that be don't want this to be thrown out there, if someone could PM it to me or point me to where I can find out more, I'd be much obliged.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Loren Knight (the guy writing PD:Tholians) told you, he'd have to kill you.

I've been curious about this one too, and I'm hoping it gets told in PD:T.
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malleman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that the Klingons wiped them out because they did not need them as allies after the General War and were afraid of how fast the Seltorians could breed (since they were based inside of the Empire's boarders).
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Have to keep my eye out (and an ear to the ground) for that.
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too was wondering about the answer to that mystic little comment when looking at the Seltorian descriptions in FC. I was disappointed to find that an exciting story (about what inspired the Klingons to wipe the Seltorians out from the galaxy) was in fact not present. If I remember right, the context in which it was written was around the bit where it mentioned how quick the Seltorians breed/how short their lives are and thus how good an attrition unit they make, so malleman could be right on that one. Whatever the reason, it must have been quite something for the Klingons to wipe a race out through what outwardly comes across as Klingons being scared of them!
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Klingons feared the Seltorians in the end.

But let's ignore the "secret", and just look at what we already know from the greater SFU.

1) As malleman said, the Seltorians could breed incredibly fast. This means they could probably pump out a billion footsoldiers in an incredibly short time. This by itself should by rights scare anyone.

2) The Seltorians only cared about killing Tholians. During the General War, this was useful. At the least, it kept the Tholians busy and pinned down. At the best, the Seltorians might accidentally kill them off. After the General War this was just war-mongering when the Klingons, quite frankly, had no need for it. This makes them go from being convenient allies to a problem.

3) The Seltorians weren't Klingon subjects. The Klingons had no real input into the Seltorian activities. For an empire that pretty much insists on total control of their subjects, this is a huge deal. The Seltorians were not subjects of the Klingons. They weren't even really allies. They were cobelligerants at best.

Putting those three reasons together, you can easily see the Klingons didn't need to find a nasty "secret" to drive them to kill of the Seltorians. The Seltorians were a complete wildcard that could get out of hand easily. It is also easy to see why no other race complained, or gave any aid to any potential surviving Seltorians. (Honestly, I doubt the Federation even complained.)
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I can see why it would be desireable for the Klingons to kill off the Seltorians, but to say there was some terrible secret that triggered it kinda does make you ask what that secret is. Maybe the "secret" was just that they bred fast and for some reason the Klingons didn't know this despite having fought alongside them? It has to be something more cool/dramatic than that... Wink
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm betting that some Klingon scientist found that the Seltorians were actually the Old Kings and decided to get even...
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Kang
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's just a teaser for some future story or something.

Interestingly, in the background for the Tholians in the early SFB expansions [by the Rev. Ron Wheeler, iirc] it was stated that the former subject race of the Tholians, from whom the Tholians had fled, might just turn up one day hunting for them. As we now know, these were the Seltorians, who really weren't best chuffed with the Tholians, and they are now an established part of the SFU. But still the teaser was there....

That's why I think that's what it is - just a teaser.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is a teaser, intended to be revealed in PD Tholians, whenever that gets to bubble up to the top of the queue.

I was just trying to point out that the "secret" is not necessary to justify why the Klingons eliminated them. It may provide an added incentive, but it is not necessary for the justification.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In SFB Module X1R, the scenario detailing the assault on the Hive Ship Burning Torch of Vengeance says in the historical outcome that

Quote:
With no ability to construct new ships, the Seltorians had no choice but to go on the defensive and adopt a survival mode while asking the Klingons to help them build a new shipyard. The Klingons, having discovered the history of the Seltorian revolt, in which the Seltorians had murdered hundreds of billions of Tholians, declined. Even the Klingons could not contemplate mass genocide on this scale.


Instead, the Klingons destroyed, or confiscated, the last Seltorian ships they could find - selling the last five to the WYN Cluster (the SSDs for which are in CL37).

However, the records are, as yet, unclear as to what exactly happened to the CAX Swift Wind of Fire and the DDXs High Mountain of Sorrow and Black Mountain of Betrayal (or maybe even a third, Fire Mountain of Revenge) that were supposedly under construction in the hangar bays of the Torch when it was extinguished...
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Davec_24
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe that's what the big secret is, that the Klingons found out what they did to the Tholians. It sounds perfectly plausible as a reason to rid the Seltorians of their ships, and also seems like the kind of thing the Seltorians might not have wanted their Klingon allies to know. I think that this question may have been left relatively open on purpose in so that it can be expanded on in a future product or something, and used as a "teaser" as people have been saying, possibly for the "PD Tholians" module.
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junior
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah...

It's been indicated that there was something in the Hive Ship that was discovered when either the Klingons or the ISC went sifting through the wreckage. The reasons that mjwest states are the old ones from when the Seltorians were first introduced. And the X1R reasons are valid. But there's something else that won't be revealed until PD:T comes out. And it's something that we're not currently aware of (and we are aware of the genocide).
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OGOPTIMUS
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
I'm betting that some Klingon scientist found that the Seltorians were actually the Old Kings and decided to get even...


That would just be creepy...

I like the way you think sir!
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, it's what I said it was. The Klingons could not stomach the idea of a species capable of murdering hundreds of billions of sentient beings. THAT is the "big secret". It wasn't even a secret, except that Loren didn't want me to tell anyone because he thought it would make PD THOLIANS sell better. I decided it wouldn't help sales and might as well be "revealed".

There is nothing else. Just that.
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