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Bugging the Middle Years

 
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Bugging the Middle Years Reply with quote

Hi.


Historically, the Seltorian Hive Ship Burning Torch of Vengeance did not arrive in our galaxy until long after the Middle Years were over - conveniently (for the locals, at least) after the refits and new ship classes which brought the Alpha Octant up to the level that the M81 Galaxy ships had been at before them.

However, say if one wanted to run a scenario in which the Seltorians arrived much earlier, during the course of the Middle Years. What kind of options would their Alpha Octant opponents put on the table, to try and counter them?

(For argument's sake, say that the Seltorians would be limited in terms of what they could build/deploy from the Hive Ship, and that the ships they built historically with Klingon help - the DNL and NCA - would not be available.)


Indeed, given the smaller (and weaker) ships at the Holdfast's disposal during this era, would this turn of events spell bad news for the Tholians - or can they at least hold their own (in a defensive position, say when trying to protect a BS or SB) against their most hated foes?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Seltorians arrived during the Middle Years*, the Tholians would be dead. Their NDD and NFFs would die quickly, and they hadn't even designed the DD yet. The pathetic Tholian defense would be crushed in fairly short order.

At that point, the Seltorians would have to decide whether to stick around or not. They could really screw up the Klingons (and Feds) if they chose, though I am sure the Galactics could eventually overwhelm them with pure numbers.

It would be interesting to see what new alliances could evolve from this. With the Federation and Klingons likely forced to fight together against a common enemy, alliances could end up being radically different! The Hydrans might never be conquered, and the Kzinti might be completely screwed (since now *all* of their neighbors hate them!) The Romulans are likely screwed, too, as the new alliances would likely prevent the eventual Klingon partnership with them.

Most likely, however, the Seltorians would be happy with a job well done and just leave. Their leaders aren't idiots, and they have to know that their single Hive ship cannot take on an entire Galaxy of opponents. And, having just demonstrated their utter ruthlessness, I doubt any of the Galactics are going to want to be friendly, either.

An interesting side effect of this, however, is if the Seltorians do leave, and don't cause much damage to the Klingons while doing so, then the Romulans are well and truly screwed.

So, in the end, if the Seltorians arrived during the Middle Years, and everything else is relatively equal, the fairly obvious results are:
1) Tholian Holdfast is dead in short order.
2) Seltorians leave.

Edit:
[*] I say "Middle Years", but I was thinking "Early Years". Thus, the disconnect between the leading statement and everything that follows. My bad.
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Last edited by mjwest on Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify, the Holdfast would have no more NDDs or NFFs, but would have DDs, POLs and Cs, as well as the various units listed in Briefing #2's (7B), such as light and heavy monitors, base stations, starbases and what have you.


When it comes to the Selts leaving, there's no guarantee there wouldn't other Tholians on the way - such as the 312th and the ships which eventually went to the Draco Dwarf Galaxy.

(Although, perhaps Draco would end up getting two waves of immigrants - one from a re-routed 312th, then another from the War Havoc's fleet later on...)


EDIT: In FC terms, I was assuming that a Romulan player would have their Middle Years ships also - although maybe one could experiment with a no-KR option and only give them the Eagle-series hulls? (Perhaps they got help from someone else instead of Smarba.)
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, wait. You said *Middle Years*. I was thinking *Early Years*. My bad.

Let's try this again.

What would likely happen if the Seltorians show up in the Middle Years, is basically what happened historically, except that Tholians eventually die.

Since the Tholians are already established by Y120, and have started producing the C and other ships, they would be a much tougher nut to crack. So, it is likely the Klingons would still let the Seltorians settle down on the same world they got later, and they would then start working on producing ships and building a fleet, all the while annoying the Tholians.

Then, at some point between Y130 and Y150, the Klingons would have been between wars for long enough to focus on the Tholians. At that point, the Seltorians would not have enough of a fleet to succeed at an assault on their own, but would be able to help the Klingons in a joint assault.

And then the Tholians die.

Once the Tholians are dead, the Seltorians would pretty much have to leave. There purpose in the Milky Way is gone, and they have zero hope of conquering just the Klingons, much less anyone else. If the Klingons play it right, they would make sure the Seltorians take the brunt of the assault on the Tholians, then kill the remnants after the war. No reason to leave loose ends around. Wink

And that is pretty much the difference. There might be one or two less wars with the Klingons involved, as it would take longer for them to rebuild their fleet after that. I don't see the 4PW or GW being derailed, however. The Romulans might actually get help from the Klingons earlier, because the Klingons would need pressure on that front to keep the Federation off their backs. Other than that, I don't see much difference.

Actually, I am liking the Early Years arrival scenario better ...
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thought I had was for the Seltorians to show up in 2550.

At this point, the Feds and Klingons were historically only a few years away from the war which the Organians put a stop to. At this point, relations between the two powers would already be quite tense.

Enter the Hive Ship. If the Klingons allow the Selts to use their space as a launch pad for a campaign, Star Fleet might start getting a little itchy about this turn of events - especially if, say, the Klingons 'volunteer' the Tholian Border Squadron under Limited War.

However, if the TBS is deployed, the Klingo-Selt coalition might find the Tholians backed up by the Federation Seventh Fleet, taking part in a limited war of its own.

(This could launch the larger Fed-Klingon war a few years earlier - or it might simply add fuel to the fire. However, even if the Organians intervene this time around, would that stop the forces already in Tholian space?)


So, in FC terms, one could have B2 Fed ships alongside Middle Years Tholians in a fight against B2 Klingons and the Seltorians - with perhaps the odd Middle Years Orion raiders crashing the party.

What kind of tactics would the Middle Years Star Fleet (or Tholians or Orion Pirates, for that matter) use if obliged to start shooting at Seltorian ships/fleets/convoys/etc, Klingon-allied or no? Can the superior weight in numbers and the presence of heavier command ships take on the somewhat smaller, but Main Era-equivalent ships of the Tribunal fleet?


(In such a scenario, I'd still keep the Selts from getting their three-boom hulls. In-universe, perhaps the Klinks needed to work out newer warp technologies to work the problem out. From a campaign perspective, I'd want to oblige the Selts to not rely on DNLs and NCAs...)
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the seletorians did arrive historically, they imeadiatley threw everything they had at the tholians, which cost them victory. So I would say that if the federation intervened, the seletorians would be stopped, unless the klinks attacked the feds, in which case the feds would pull back the fleet on the tholian border.

But I doubt the Feds would bother helping the tholians. They don't gain anything, and it would raise hostilities with the klinks.
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