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Hydran Stinger and Defensive Fire

 
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IKerensky
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011
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Location: blois - France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Hydran Stinger and Defensive Fire Reply with quote

Hello,

(5Q2) tell us that "The Gatling phaser can be used in the Defensive Fire Phase as well as the Direct Fire Phase."

but (5Q1a) warn us that : "Hydran Stingers operate as shuttles (with some additional rules noted herein)."

and as (5H4) tell us about shuttle : "They have no defense against seeking weapons [other than having a friendly ship shootdown (or tractor) the weapon in an Offensive Fire Phase]. So if a seeking weapon hits a shuttle, its damage is resolved in the Defensive Fire Step even though there is no defensive fire actually involved."

Here are the questions :

1- During defensive fire, can the Stinger shoot at seeking weapons that impacted it ?
2- If yes to 1, is the defensive fire restricted by the FA fire arc of the Ph-G ?
3- How do you track the side from wich the seeking weapon impacted ?

Regards,

Nathaniel.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's most likely that the bit about shuttles having no defensive fire was written before Stingers were in the game.

Perhaps the next rules update should include the phrase 'Except Stingers' os something Smile
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prior to the introduction of Stingers, shuttles had no phasers. Yes, stingers can fire in defensive fire. The fire is limited to the FA, which means that if the drone impacted in the #1, #2 or #6 directions of the Stinger it can fire at it. You would keep track of it on scratch paper or something, just note which stinger got hit by a drone and whether or not it can fire defensively at it.
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Blammo
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Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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Location: Barnesville, GA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry: I like your interpretation, but is that written up anywhere "official"? If someone is going strictly by RRBv6 they could make the case that there is no exception for the Stinger on defensive fire since Stingers are treated as shuttles (except where the rules indicate differently). Is that in a Communique perhaps?

Last edited by Blammo on Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert:
While I do not recall seeing anything "official" on this (and I'm sure MJW will pop-up with the word) - I agree with Terry's reading.

The no-defensive fire rule for shuttles cane from a pre-Stinger time when shuttles had no phasers, ergo; no defensive fire.
Stingers,while considered shuttles are an unusual beast to say the least.
In our group, we do allow them the opportunity for Defensive Fire when firing arcs allow.
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Blammo
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Tony:
I like Terry's interpretation. My only point is that, as it stands, this is not official and someone could claim by the rules that there is no exception for Stingers. The rules on shuttles do not say they do not get defensive fire because they have no weapons (although, that is a reasonable reading) and the argument could be made that there is "some other reason" why shuttles (including stingers) do not get defensive fire.

Again, I like Terry's interpretation and it sounds like a reasonable ruling. Just looking for something official and in the absence of that suggestion something be codified to state what Terry wrote. Even an update that said "unarmed shuttles do not get defensive fire but armed shuttles do based on the arc of the weapon being used" would be a good start. Smile
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Savedfromwhat
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That explanation doesn't say anything about there not being a defensive fire phase for shuttles, only that "shuttles" have nothing to defend with. In fact it even says damage is resolved during the defensive fire phase. The rule/explanation does not say shuttles aren't allowed to fire only that they have nothing to fire with. This is something written for old SFB player where the shuttle once had a phaser 3.

Another question is Aegis states it is available to defend "ships" I am assuming it can't be used to defend stingers. Yea or nay?
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JonPerry
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Specific rules override general rules.

The general rules for shuttles is that they don't shoot at all, let alone in defensive fire.
The specific rules for Stingers says otherwise.

It's like the general rules for turn modes are overidden by the specific rules for HETs.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is "officially" in there, and it is in those exact rules you quoted. Specifically, (5Q1a), which says "Hydran Stingers operate as shuttles (with some additional rules noted herein)." One of those additional rules is (5Q2), which says that the gatling phaser can be used in the defensive fire phase. They rule is right there and you quoted it. It is perfectly official and already stated.

The other thing is that, just because the Stinger is a fighter, it doesn't suddenly invalidate all of the other rules in the game. So, you determine the "shield facing" the drone its the same way with a Stinger as with a ship. The fact that the Stinger has no shields doesn't change that the facing is still determined the same way. And obviously, the Stingers phaser will only be useful if the drone hits the Stinger in the #1, #2, or #6 "shield facing", as those are the only ones that can be hit from the FA arc.

To specifically answer the questions:
1. Yes, the Stinger may use its phaser in defensive fire against impacted seeking weapons.
2. Yes, the Stinger's phaser is still limited to the FA arc.
3. You track the side impacted exactly the same as if the Stinger was a ship with no shields.

So, again, the rules are all already there. They don't suddenly change how they operate just because the Stinger is a fighter instead of a ship.
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Blammo
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, mjwest. I had missed that one sentence. That is what I originally asked for, but was not directed to it until now. I didn't quote it previously...if I had seen it, I would not have asked if it was written somewhere. I am still assimilating a lot of the rules so have not used to everything and where it is found. Thanks for a substantial answer. Smile

Everyone feel free to untwist your knickers Very Happy
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Savedfromwhat
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike is Aegis available to protect shuttles? Or is it supposed to be ship only?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
Mike is Aegis available to protect shuttles?

Sure, why not? Yeah, it says "ships", but in general what applies to "ships" also applies to other units (like bases and shuttles), too, unless there are parts of those rules that would make it not work (like bases can't move and shuttles have no shields).

So, yes, an escort can use Aegis to protect shuttles (and fighters and bases) from seeking weapons, too.
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