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M81 Pirate clarification

 
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: M81 Pirate clarification Reply with quote

A few years ago, I was asking about the option mount costs which the OGR and OGD from CL40 would use when installing either shield crackers or particle cannons in their option mounts. Since then, (8B4) has been added to the Reference Rulebook, clarifying the current limits on which weapons can go in thei option mounts (in the absence of any data on the kind of empires we may one day see in Prime Directive Tholians).

Apologies if this has been updated anywhere already, but what are the current costs for installing either a PC or SC into an old galaxy pirate ship's option mount? (As in, has the info been put into an official errata entry anywhere?)

I was thinking about submitting an old galaxy pirate force for the CL48 battle group article, and wanted to clarify which point values I should list therein.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Particle cannon +0
shield cracker +2
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it, thanks.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, we answered this before. After it was asked by you. Very Happy
http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2599

However, I have questions on that list, as the cost of the Particle Cannon is given as +1 instead of +2. I am sure that was done for a reason, but I for the life of me cannot remember why. So, without any of that support, I believe I should stick with the SFB costs.

So, here are the costs:
Particle Cannon: +2
Shield Cracker (only): 0
Web Breaker: +5
Web Caster: +10
Snare/Web Generator: +3
Web Generator (No Snare): 0

(Not to contradict the game designer or anything, but he accidentally transposed the two values. A simple typo.)

Some notes:
In the Home Galaxy, the OG Pirates only used Particle Cannons, Shield Crackers, and Phaser-1s. While Web Breakers and Web Casters are listed without qualification in the Annex, they are NOT available to OG Pirates. Web Casters, Web Breakers, Snares, and Web Generators are only available in the Simulator.

Also, this was supposed to make it into Communique 49 and CL41, but I can't see that this ever made it in anywhere at any point, outside that linked discussion. So, it probably needs to be formally added somewhere. When we do formally list them, only the Particle Cannon and Shield Cracker will be listed, as we tend not to show Simulator stuff in Federation Commander. (Well, outside the Frax, anyway. Smile)

EDIT: Changed some wording to be more definitive and to be clear that OG Pirates cannot use Web Breakers and Web Casters.
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Last edited by mjwest on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:55 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did ask that question back then, but more recent updates and articles in various sources obliged me to re-visit the topic.

In terms of phaser-1s, both the OGR and OGD have a number of them in their standard mounts already, so I was assuming they wouldn't be a problem to take in the option mounts. I could understand keeping them away from the likes of the phaser-G, though.

Plus, I was working under the assumption that the web generator, web caster and web snare were restricted Tholian technology, which no-one else in the home galaxy would have had access to. Given the historical write-up for the home galaxy pirates in CL41, their starships are "export models" of hulls originally built by the Nebuline, one of the Tholians' pre-Will adversaries - and even they strip out their "key Nebuline technology" when selling OGRs or OGDs to various High Pirate Bands. So even if we were to ever see any Nebuline-flown versions of the pirate ships, or the wingless naval hulls they operate inside their host nebulae (and which the pirate hulls were adapted from), their own tech base would be distinct from that operated by their Tholian enemies.

It would be interesting to clarify whether or not the Seltorians would provide access to web breaker technology to either the Nebuline or their High Pirate Band clients, though. If so, the web breaker would then become a Revolt-era (or post-Revolt) option for these option mounts. But if not, perhaps there was a reason why the Seltorians withheld such technology (or why the would-be recipients were unable to reverse-engineer it from captured samples).


In any event, I was hoping to settle things in light of this round of battle group submissions over on the BBS. Since the first version of my force assumes the point value adjustments SVC posted above, I'd need to know before the submission deadline whether or not I have to adjust the numbers in order for the force to be legal.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry on the phaser thing. I meant to say phaser-1s, as obviously they have that technology! That was a typo and I have fixed the prior message.

Anyway, in their introduction for SFB in CL#40 it specifically states that they use particle cannons, phasers, and, very occasionally, shield crackers. That is the historical weapons options. Note that the FC write-up specifically allows them to also use disruptors, fusions, photons, phaser-Gs, and even plasma bolts, if so desired. Presumably these represent unknown weapons that worked similarly in the Home Galaxy. (I don't care what those weapons really are. All I am doing is listing the weapons that the rules state are available.)

On the Web Breaker and Web Caster, I can only tell you want is given in the SFB Annexes. I don't care about unpublished background says. All I know is what the rules say and the annexes show. Same with the Snare and Web Generator. It is listed as Simulator only, so that is what it is.

Anyway, for Battleforce, since you are using the ships from CL#40, you should be using the rules from CL#40. That means you may use the follow weapons in your options mounts: particle cannons, phaser-1/2/G, fusions, shield crackers, and photons. The costs are as listed in (5L), plus:
particle cannon: +2
shield cracker: 0
And that's pretty much the story.

(It does say you can use plasma bolts, but we don't have costs for those. It wouldn't be fair to charge "full" price for bolt-only plasma, but I don't feel comfortable making up new costs on the fly, so let's just say no bolt-only plasma.)

And, again on the costs, Steve obviously accidentally got them reversed. Not a big issue. I am sorry it inconveniences your force. On the other hand, you now have several other weapons to choose from. So, net win for you.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary,

BTW, I checked your force. With the change to the costs, you end up spending 8 more points to keep the same weapons load. But, considering you were 16 points under limit, you are good to go. Just swap the adjustments around, and you don't even have to change anything about the submitted force.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough.

(Turns out that if I adjust the point values to account for the PC costs, I wouldn't have enough points left over to upgrade the SCs to WBs anyway. Still, I might ask about the post-Revolt issue over on the BBS for clarity's sake.)
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a quick email reply with Steve, and I modified my post above listing option costs. Web breakers and web casters are not available, despite what SFB Annex 8B implies. (So Gary doesn't have to worry about affording WBs anyway.)

Hopefully, we will finally remember to put the OG weapons costs in Communique in the next one. Note that it will only include the particle cannon and shield cracker, as they are the only ones that can "normally" be used.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like it's been added to Communique #94.

Thank you (plural) for the update.
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