L-era, or Local Defence/National Guard ships

[Nerroth]

Hi.


In tandem with the discussions over the Early and Middle Years, I figured that it might be reasonable to split debate over the L-era (the kind of ships seen in SFB Module R8: System Defence Command) into its own topic.


To those unfamiliar with the term, the L- (or in the case of the Federation, G-) era ships are Early Years vessels upgraded with middle-years technologies, such as phaser-1s and whatnot - and used as the National Guard ships of Federation (and Inter-Stellar Concordium, though they used a different term) member planets, Naval Reserve ships of the Klingon Empire, vessels of lesser nobles in Lzinti and Lyran space, and so on and so forth.


So, at the risk of hearing cries of 'foul!' - since I'm pretty much 'borrowing' Mike West's outline for the E-ships - this could be a basic outline.

Federation:
GCA, GDD, GFF

Klingon:
LD4, LF4

Romulan:
KD4, KF4

Kzinti:
LCS, LCL*, LFF

Gorn:
LCL, LDD, LFF*

Orion:
LCR*, LLR*, LSL*, LVK*, LCA*, LCL*, DD
(The first 4 are not - yet - in SFB, but could represent upgraded 'Local Despoilment' vessels used by those unable to afford a CR or LR. Similarly, the LCA and LCL could be local defence upgrades of the YCA and WCL respectively, as shown in SFB Module Y2.)

Hydran:
LCA, LFF
(They use St-1 fighters.)

Lyran/LDR:
LCA, LCL*, LDD*, LFF

WYN:
KF4, LYF, ZLF*

ISC:
LCA, LCL*, LDD*, LFF


*The ships with asterisks do not, as yet, exist in SFB, but could be created as upgrades of ships seen in Y1 or Y2.


That leaves 20 ships which already exist in SFB, and 33 if the other ships are added.



Any thoughts?

[Dal Downing]

Sorry not meaning t be a wet blanket on this one but I don't want or need these ships. It just seems like away to splinter the discussion even more than it already is. once Early Year Ships or Middle Year Ships are in do we really need to do them again as a refit.

The Biggest Difference I think you will see between a Early Years "Y" Cruiser and a "Gaurd Cruiser" is wither or not it can use Overloaded Wepons, Range of its Weapons and wither or not it can use Shield Reinforcement.

Now there very well maybe a exception to prove the rule and if so it should be rolled into a EY or MY Briefing. To be honest I think the Omegas and Magellics are going to eat more time than anyone thinks coming up with all the new weapons. At least EY MY and XTech use the same base weapons.

[Nerroth]

Sorry not meaning t be a wet blanket on this one but I don't want or need these ships. It just seems like away to splinter the discussion even more than it already is. once Early Year Ships or Middle Year Ships are in do we really need to do them again as a refit.

The Biggest Difference I think you will see between a Early Years "Y" Cruiser and a "Gaurd Cruiser" is wither or not it can use Overloaded Wepons, Range of its Weapons and wither or not it can use Shield Reinforcement.

Well, a few things.

Firstly, these ships would serve in both the middle years and General War settings - as they were in service throughout both eras - so could be integrated with the ships seen in both.

Secondly, unlike the Early Years ships, the rules for these ones are already good to go - they need less development time than the Y-era will need.

Thirdly, they could serve as a preview of what to expect in the Y-era module. (Even in SFB, the first glimpse anyone got of the pre-2560 ISC was through the LCAs and other ships introduced in R8, which were then turned 'back' into the Y-era ships seen more recently in Y2.)

Fourthly, a lot of the civilian and Orion ships introduced in OA could work well in scenarios with these ships - since the National Guard ships served to look after pirates, along with various space monsters 'who hadn't noticed a war going on'. (It's noted that the ISC in particular relied on its large fleet of LCAs to patrol the Concordium during the Pacification campaign.)

Now there very well maybe a exception to prove the rule and if so it should be rolled into a EY or MY Briefing. To be honest I think the Omegas and Magellics are going to eat more time than anyone thinks coming up with all the new weapons. At least EY MY and XTech use the same base weapons.

Well, Mike doesn't want them in the E-briefing, they won't fit with the Early Years ships (which need additional rules and restrictions) and unlike Omega have all of the weapons and systems they need already good to go.

(And funny thing about those Magellanics...)

[pneumonic81]

Thats kinda cool. Man the forum is hopping today!

[Steve Cole]

I wouldn't think this one is a priority, nor is it necessary to make a record of every future idea TODAY, but sure, we can do it.

Everything gets done based on several parameters.

1. How much time by which human being does it take?

2. How many copies are likely to sell?

3. Does it involved items that can only be produced in large numbers?

4. Has everything which is easier to do and/or will sell better been done?

5. Did SVC have a good lunch today? or go to the dentist today? He's usually easier to talk into crazy things when he has a good lunch or has been gassed by the dentist.

[KJ]

So, SVC... can you schedule a dentist appointment for Monday morning before you read this board? I have a few ideas to run past you...

[Steve Cole]

Next appointment is 3 Feb, but that is just cleaning.

For you to talk me into something, they have to find a cavity and schedule a later appointment to gas me up and drill-and-fill it.

[Ravenhull]

Next appointment is 3 Feb, but that is just cleaning.

For you to talk me into something, they have to find a cavity and schedule a later appointment to gas me up and drill-and-fill it.

If any doubted if our patron has a sense of humor...

[pneumonic81]

Next appointment is 3 Feb, but that is just cleaning.

For you to talk me into something, they have to find a cavity and schedule a later appointment to gas me up and drill-and-fill it.

Couldn't we simply send you a 5th of Tennesee Whisky? (Jack preferably)

[Steve Cole]

You could, but I don't drink alcohol. I have probably had less than ten drinks in the last 30 years, including wine, beer, and mixed drinks. I seriously doubt if I have ever been legally drunk. (During the last two years of college I might have gone through a case or two of beer, never more than two in a night.)

I just don't like the taste. I find beer very bitter (even light beer), and wine is so acidic I cannot even get it down.

There have been rumors that I am a recovering alcoholic and probably two Origins out of three somebody "slips" me the time and place of the secret AA meeting which apparently goes on there. But no, I'm not a recovering alcoholic and I'm not in AA and I'm not in denial.

I just don't drink. It's that simple.

Now, if you wait until Leanna goes home for the day and send me a saucy 20-something girl who can do a lap dance, you can pretty much get anything you want. That's how the Crawford Box happened.

[jeffery smith]

so the secret of "how to get things approved " is revealled

[Nerroth]

1. How much time by which human being does it take?

Relatively little - it needs no new rules, just a little detail for the ships, and the Ship Cards themselves.

2. How many copies are likely to sell?

Hopefully at least more than one?

3. Does it involved items that can only be produced in large numbers?

No - everything in it can be done with the same print-on-demand procedure being considered for Middle Years and others.

4. Has everything which is easier to do and/or will sell better been done?

After Middle Years, it's an option which needs the least new rules to make work - since Omega, the Early Years and X-ships need more than just ship cards.

5. Did SVC have a good lunch today? or go to the dentist today? He's usually easier to talk into crazy things when he has a good lunch or has been gassed by the dentist.

That, I have no way to answer...



On the module itself, it could have a slightly wider remit, allowing it to cover other units introduced in Module R8 - such as the heavy police ships (such as the Fed Police Frigate) and other police units yet to be published (such as the Tholian Police Cutter and more of the Klingon ISF units) - and perhaps some of the auxiliary units which have not already been added to FC.

[Steve Cole]

The ship cards themselves are an issue, not a deal breaker, but not zero.

Steve Cole does every ship card (nobody else knows how) and checking them ties up the entire FedComm staff (including Jean, taking her away from doing RPGs which should make far more money).

[mjwest]

BTW, I want to disagree with the comment about rules for an Early Years or X module. In point of fact, outside weapons themselves, the rules required for Early Years will be like a half-column (basically a quarter of a page) long. The main space will be translating the EY weapons, and that really won't be very difficult. It will probably take longer to make and proof the ship cards, than it will to do anything with the rules for EY or X.

The main advantage that Middle Years has is that 90% of the ship cards are already mostly there. They are modifications of existing cards. Any other module (EY, X, L) will require most of the cards to be made from scratch.

[Steve Cole]

I would consider this module to be uikely in the near term. I cannot, in good faith, give you any hope of it being published at all. At best, it's an idea.

We have other things to do with higher sales potential. Middle Years, Early Years, Omega, Magellanics. That's about six-ten modules, not even counting Borders of Madness which I want to start next year in April or May. At any reasonable level of pubication, this "national guard ships" thing is 2012 if it sees print at all.

The work on doing the ship cards would be massive, and I think you would be more likely to buy the third briefing of omega ships than this, and that's the same amount of work.