FedCom - only ships?

Dan Ibekwe · Post by **Dan Ibekwe** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:05 am

I've always wanted to see large passenger liners in SFB; they've been rejected in the past on the (quite reasonable) grounds that they, and civilian tugs, would unbalance Federation & Empire.

Another ship that comes to mind is the Lyran Global Operations Cruiser from SFC.

Since FC does not seem to be as closely linked to F&E, could we see these ships, and others, appearing in FC?

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:01 pm

Probably not.

Steve has said multiple times that any ship in Federation Commander must also exist in SFB. There have be one or two ships that showed up first in Federation Commander, but they have always also appeared in a Captain's Log (or something else) shortly after.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:06 pm

I don't have F&E, so perhaps I don't fully understand the full ramifications - however, please could someone say why large Civilian passenger liners would unbalance the game?

The only thing I can think of would be that they could be pressed into service as troop-ships, like we Brits did to the Canberra during the Falklands War.

Carthaginian · Post by **Carthaginian** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:22 pm

The Large and Small Freighters should be able to serve as Liners.
Consider one line of 'cargo' boxes to 'shuttle' and maybe add a couple of 'cargo' boxes as more transporters. The rest is considered 'passenger quarters.'

Post by **Steve Cole** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:07 pm

I have no idea who said those ships would unbalance F&E. It wasn't me, and they would have no effect. They're not in SFB or FC because they're just targets.

Take a large freighter. Mark out "cargo" and enter "passenger accomodations, hit on cargo" and VOILA you have a large passenger liner.

As for ships in SFC that were not copied from SFB, we don't have the "right" to use them.

Ravenhull · Post by **Ravenhull** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:45 am

The big question is, would people be willing to pay money for flying targets?

Davec_24 · Post by **Davec_24** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:58 pm

Ravenhull wrote:The big question is, would people be willing to pay money for flying targets?

If you had a module called "Freighters Attack" or such, people would buy it because it gives you targets for convoy raids or planet/base assaults where you have the odd civilian ship in the area. Also some people would buy it because it's another product and some want to have all the FC products to complete their collection. However, I don't think that either of these points gives sufficient reason to put them in the game when there are loads of ships that aren't "just targets" to get to first.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:31 pm

At the risk of being Politically Incorrect, my idea is 'Federation Commander - Zimmer Frame Attack'.

This would feature a firmly sub-light vessel with minimal shielding, but crewed by an umbrella-wielding maniac with a severe attitude problem. There is of course the variant with wheels and brake levers on the top handlebar, and with a shopping bag hanging on the front.

On the surface, they look like harmless targets, but in a way they're like Q-ships. Bite one and it bites back - big time. An umbrella inserted where only Andromedan medical research teams dare to probe - if you're lucky.

Booster packs would include ship cards for wheelchairs, wheeled tartan shopping trolleys, and those electric scooter things that pensioners use to assault teenagers in shopping precincts.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:52 pm

I would buy a product of just "interesting targets" and I have made ship cards of my own for such things, but I think I'm a minority "fringe" purchaser. I doubt a product like that would have enough legs.

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:01 am

I agree with Will. Such "Targets" might be fun for the occasional sceanrio... but a product of only Targets wouldn't have the sales necessary to support it's design / development.

Now, OTOH - you might could make a case for including a few one-off ships in a Briefing product - especially if you could tie them into a particularly interesting scenario idea or two.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:17 am

Yeah there's no way in hell a "Freighters Attack" type supplement would sell. Heck the current civilian designs are already thrown into odd boosters, darn free traders and the like in my booster packs! (I coulda got another Kzinti instead!)

Steve or whoever designs the products can sneak the freighters in one or two at a time into boosters here and there, that's the only way they'll sell. I doubt the convoy miniatures and the like in the online store are the hot sellers among miniatures either. Though it probably helps somewhat that the WYN appear to use freighters as adhoc warships.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:53 am

Davec_24 wrote:If you had a module called "Freighters Attack" or such, people would buy it because it gives you targets for convoy raids or planet/base assaults where you have the odd civilian ship in the area. Also some people would buy it because it's another product and some want to have all the FC products to complete their collection. However, I don't think that either of these points gives sufficient reason to put them in the game when there are loads of ships that aren't "just targets" to get to first.

An acceptable compromise would be to have a 'Freighters' booster, in which you get perhaps four small and one large freighter. This would be useful to flesh out convoys where you want more standard freighters than are currently provided for in the current ship card mix. OTOH, of course, if you're getting to that level of fleet size, the fleet-scale cards may be in use already....

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:04 am

Kang wrote: An acceptable compromise would be to have a 'Freighters' booster, in which you get perhaps four small and one large freighter. This would be useful to flesh out convoys where you want more standard freighters than are currently provided for in the current ship card mix. OTOH, of course, if you're getting to that level of fleet size, the fleet-scale cards may be in use already....

Yeah, a booster might be okay. Though boosters have more than 5 cards in them, taking a gander at mine looks like they've got 7 in 'em. I doubt a given booster would have more than 3 of any ship, currently the most you get of one design is two. Freighters might be a bit of an exception.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:59 am

Ha, well spotted Paul. I meant 2 large freighters....

Having said that, if seven cards as you say, then why not three small ferighters, three large, and as a bonus ship, the Heavy Ore Carrier in Sqn scale? I would definitely buy that.

Whether they'd be able [or want] to compile a miniatures box for that booster would, of course, be up to the design team.

This booster would fit in with the general concept of independent booster packs #91 - #94 as mentioned in Captain's Log #38.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:39 pm

Gosh, so many ideas here....

Freighter booster: Sure, mix of large and small freighters, and armed priority transport and free trader. Should be easy to do. Maybe we'll try it as booster 90. Mail order only and see if anybody buys it.

We could certainly do FREIGHTERS ATTACK or maybe FREIGHTERS UNDER ATTACK. The design/development load would be minimal. The problem is laminated cards. The minimum print run would be ten times the potential sales. As a paper target with no counters and no cards, easy as pie, and I don't really care if it only sells 50 copies.

Maybe Mike West needs to send me a memo about that before we forget about it.