Borders of Madness Book One

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:38 am

Coming late to the discussion, but I don't think the Commando Eagle's ability to land on planets in SFB makes any difference if the FC rules are being used for the battle, does it? Because in FC, any ship can land on a planet. If players are choosing to use the (realistic, but rather complicated) planetary landing rules from SFB, then they can just use the 1Z rules to convert the commando eagle.

Notalent · Post by **Notalent** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:23 pm

I would prefer ships BtB. The direct fire drones seem a bit strong but only play with it will show if Im right or on crack.

Dal Downing · Post by **Dal Downing** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:30 pm

Ok I was thinking about it and think I may be missing part of the picture. Are the Ship Cards going to be done exactly like they were done in Briefing #1. Only one Card Face per Page Side = 1 ship in Squadron & Fleet per sheet or are you going to save a few trees and put both Squadron and Fleet Scales side by side on one Sheet Face and a different Ship on the Back Face = 2 Ships per Page? I have been operating under a assumption and we all know what that does.

Dal Downing · Post by **Dal Downing** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:39 pm

mjwest wrote:
Dal Downing wrote:If this is a BoM product why hamstring the fighters? I use Dog Fight Rules so I would like to beable to use RLAD or Dog Fight Drones (Yes I use them as intercept to protect my ships), Chaffs and Warp Booster packs with speed 32 drones. If this was just a FC Product yeah dumb the fighters down but it not it is a BoM Product so why not let the fighters stand?
Because they must still work within the FC framework. Therefore, drones are still speed 24, there are no dogfight drones, and RALADs are an unnecessary complexity.

EDIT:
Hmm. Well, I am probably gonna have to at least introduce the concept of type-VI drones for the Middle Years Briefing. And RALADs would be a very simple system to add for individual fighter defense. So, maybe a few things could be considered. But I really don't see dogfighting or chaff or higher firing rates making the cut ...

As far as Speed 24 Drones that Genie is out of the Bottle so to speak if you are a SFBer using DWEs you are probably using Speed 32 Drones and Saboted Plasma. Neither of which is really difficult to do in FC just FC doesn't need them.

If it is decided to do away with Chaffs I hope that RALADs are atleast add or I will just be drawing them on my own Fighter Cards anyway.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:38 pm

Dal Downing wrote:Ok I was thinking about it and think I may be missing part of the picture. Are the Ship Cards going to be done exactly like they were done in Briefing #1. Only one Card Face per Page Side = 1 ship in Squadron & Fleet per sheet or are you going to save a few trees and put both Squadron and Fleet Scales side by side on one Sheet Face and a different Ship on the Back Face = 2 Ships per Page? I have been operating under a assumption and we all know what that does.

No. They will not be done like in Briefing #1.

In Briefing #2 they will done one of two ways:
- Two separate ship cards side by side, such that the squadron scale of both ships is on one side of the page, and the fleet scale of both ships is on the opposite side of the page.
- Both the squadron scale and the fleet scale on a single side of a page.

The first method works best if you are going to rip the book apart and cut the pages in half. The second method works best if you are going to photocopy the page, then fold the photocopy in half.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:33 am

Has anyone here had much playtesting experience using the BoM fighters in FedComm?

If so, has anyone tried the "direct-fire drones" option?

I'd like to see comments from those who've tried using them.

Dal Downing · Post by **Dal Downing** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:27 am

The Game I played with them (Direct Fires that is) neither of us liked them cause it limited escorting ships opportunities to fire at them.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:08 pm

Dal: Hmmm... You'd think that escort ships would have an even better opportunity to fire at DF drones with the ability to fire at those that impact *other* ships. This is interesting. Not to belabor the point, but can you give a description of how the ability of escorts to fire at the DF drones is worse than if the drones were placed and moved normally?

General: Perhaps this has been stated somewhere and I either didn't see it or I've forgotten it, but are the DF drones supposed to be different from regular drones? I know the way they are handled is different...that's not what I'm referring to.

It might also be interesting to test out a Kzinti ship that uses DF drones. The launch range would still be limited to 8 hexes.

Notalent · Post by **Notalent** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:31 pm

You only get 1 crack at them is a problem, also if a fighter gets in to range 8 the drone WILL hit. It doesnt matter that the target is going 24+ in the oppisite direction. This can creat a problem for most ships, even fleets ability to deal with drones

Post by **Steve Cole** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:23 pm

Hmm... somebody needs to email me about this "speed 24 in the opposite direction" thing and I'll deal with it in BoM-1.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:08 pm

Steve Cole wrote:Hmm... somebody needs to email me about this "speed 24 in the opposite direction" thing and I'll deal with it in BoM-1.

Speaking of drones, am I correct in interpreting the rules that seeking weapons always move after their targets? There was some confusion at our last game where one player thought that the drones should move before their target (a speed 24+1 ship) which to me made no sense because it theoretically allowed the drones to hit the ship from a tailing position. (ie if the drones were launched in the hex behind the ship and the drones were forced to move first they would hit the ship despite being actually slower on the speed scale).

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:29 pm

Paul B wrote:
Steve Cole wrote:Hmm... somebody needs to email me about this "speed 24 in the opposite direction" thing and I'll deal with it in BoM-1.
Speaking of drones, am I correct in interpreting the rules that seeking weapons always move after their targets?

yes. all drone move after all ships irrespective of speed. slowest then fastest order only applies within each category of unit, a speed 24 drone still moves after a speed 8 ship.(2A5)

Also as it says under seeking weapons that they always move after their specific target, so even a speed 8 drone tracking a speed 24 drone would go after the speed 24 one, despit the normal speed precedance. (4F3b)

Notalent · Post by **Notalent** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:05 pm

Steve Cole wrote:Hmm... somebody needs to email me about this "speed 24 in the opposite direction" thing and I'll deal with it in BoM-1.

Where would the email go?
The 2 turn effect is particularly devistating.
Turn A imp 8 range 8 12 fighters fire drones at ship X
Turn B imp 1 range 8 1r fighters fire drones at shipY
On Imp 2 you need to kill 8 drones to avoid having a ship heavily damaged
On imp 3 you need to do it again.
That is going to tax the point defenses of atleast 6 ships.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:23 am

I made this observation back on June 1st in a discussion about this on the Legacy site after the DF drone rules were released. Here is the pertinent part of the post:

Here are some tactical considerations I see with the direct-fire drone rules:

a. They cannot be fired at while en route.
b. They will impact their target, no matter what speed or direction the target is moving. Some will argue that a ship moving at 16+, 24, or 24+ might never be hit by drones, but this is the one downside to using direct-fire drone rules.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:02 pm

I am amazed that people don't know my email address (design@StarFleetGames.com) but then some mornings I'm amazed that I woke up.