Juggernaut

John Schneder II · Post by **John Schneder II** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:35 pm

Got any pics Tony??

DorianGray · Post by **DorianGray** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:26 pm

What is SVC?

Is it some third-party miniatures store? So you're saying I won't be able to buy the juggernaut from the ADB online store?

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:45 pm

not really... but I'll take some good outdoor ones this weekend and post them...

Dal Downing · Post by **Dal Downing** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:46 pm

DorianGray wrote:What is SVC? Is it some third-party miniatures store?

Steve Cole is the Game's Over Worked Designer and President of ADB.

DorianGray wrote: So you're saying I won't be able to buy the juggernaut from the ADB online store?

Currently you can not buy a new manufacture Juggy Miniture from anyone.

SVC had 2 suppliers providing 2 diffeerent Resin Cast Models that he was selling but...

Steve Cole wrote:The two guys who made the juggy models aren't making more. We want them to but for various reasons they're not able to.

This is why Scoutdad is in the process of designing a new Master for a new Juggernaut , that ADB can have cast as a Metal Miniature which they can put back on the Shopping Cart.

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:49 pm

DorianGray wrote:What is SVC?

Is it some third-party miniatures store? So you're saying I won't be able to buy the juggernaut from the ADB online store?

SVC = Steven V Cole, the owner of ADB, the designer of Federation and Empire, Star Fleet Battles, Federation Commander, Star Fleet Battle Force, adn numerous other games (both in and out of the SFU).

Yes, you'll be able to buy the Juggernaut from the online store - as soon as I get it sculpted, mailed to Steve, he approves it (and sends it to me for reworking if necessary), then he sends it to AoG for casting, the prototype will then be sent back to him, He'll check it out, then he'll either re-send it to me for more re-working or approve the proto-type as is... Following Steve's approval, the casting run begins and the minature can be sold. (with the appropriate 90-day lead time announcement).

DorianGray · Post by **DorianGray** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:29 am

Nice,

Only ahem* 3-5 more months guys! =D

Honestly, I'm still glad we'll get it. Eventually...

SVC is great! All hail SVC.

wedge_hammersteel · Post by **wedge_hammersteel** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:51 pm

DorianGray, are you trying to piss people off?

You really made a good impression with your post, â€œShouldn't the ship designs have more variaty?â€?

Iâ€™m surprised djdood didnâ€™t lay into you more than he did.

Then you recently post â€œNice, Only ahem* 3-5 more months guys! =D Honestly, I'm still glad we'll get it. Eventually... SVC is great! All hail SVC.â€?

Im glad you recently picked up the hobby again; but tone down the comments.

SVC has a top notch staff and a dedicated group of players that contribute to the game by doing such things as making minis. Have you ever tried making a miniature? I tried and itâ€™s not an easy task.

These people have lives outside of SFB/FC. Unexpected or higher priority situations come up both inside and outside of work. Deadlines will be missed. There will be delays at times.

I am sure my fellow gamers will agree that you can post whatever you like about SFB/FC on this forum but learn how to post correctly and leave out all those cutesy, condescending and sarcastic bits.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:55 am

I think DorianGray wasn't being sarcastic in his post. Even if there was sarcasm there I didn't pick up, I made a conscious decision a while back to not flame or get involved with flaming on the SFU bbs'es. I've been here a while, so I will correct inaccurate information when I feel qualified to reply, but not on the sentiments. Just not worth getting worked up over.

Most of the "delay" is not the creation of the master miniature (scoutdad is pretty speedy, as those things go). The mold-making and production takes some time too, but again, not an inordinate amount. ADB's processing is super-fast when it needs to be.

The long lead-time is mainly due to the way that the game industry and their wholesalers work. To "stock" a new product, they expect several months notice and a bunch of hoop-jumping (press releases, etc.) - it's just how it is. ADB does what it needs to to get the goodies on the shelves.

I'm looking forward to the latest gem from Scoutdad's workbench.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:23 pm

Do the article and i'll find a place for it.

I have a bunch of new minis here I have not sent to production waiting for the juggy (since the master mold has to have about six different ships in it, the nature of the beast).

DorianGray · Post by **DorianGray** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:44 am

Ouch?

I really didn't mean to piss anyone off. I'm hugely sorry for any disrespect. I was just lamenting the long wait time for new miniatures.

Also I fully stand by my other thread about ships having more variety. I don't understand how you can be offended by a simple request to employ more of the ships from the Star Trek series (e.g. Klingon Bird of Prey). I am fully justified in my criticisms of the Andromedian/Gorn/ Saltorian miniatures. A lack of imagination resulted in very identical miniatures.

I'm just advocating more use of that creative license! I just want FedCom to be the best that it can be.

Way to attack a brand new poster and an new player into the hobby.

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:32 pm

DorianGray wrote:... I don't understand how you can be offended by a simple request to employ more of the ships from the Star Trek series (e.g. Klingon Bird of Prey)...

Dorian:
SVC can explain in more detail, but in a nutshell:
Way back when (mid to late '70s), ADB was issued a license to develop the Star Fleet Battles game from the material in the Franz Joseph Design's Star Fleet Battle Manual.
The license only covers material available at that time (i.e. the Original Series and ST: the Animated Series) and new items / races created in-house by ADB. They can not use material from the later series or movies w/o voiding their license - and then they wouldn't be able to use anything as they would be out of business.

For that reason, we are limited to Klingons with various sized ships based on the "D" hull battlecruiser and cannot and will not have Cardassians, Borg, or Birds-of-Prey

DorianGray · Post by **DorianGray** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:42 pm

I understood what you mentioned above.

However, designing a completely new ship with the TOS creative license breaking the license? I wasn't advocating the exact Bird of Prey from TNG.

Esp. for the Gorn, Orions, etc this 'creative license' has been used by Interplay.

I'm esp surprised the long-box like Gorn battleship (middle 2 from thr left) never made it into the miniatures.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:45 pm

We don't have rights to ships invented by Interplay.

In theory, we could invent a new Gorn ship that doesn't look like any Gorn ship. However, that would violate one of the basic concepts of how we think the universe works, that all Gorn ships look like Gorn ships. One bubble, two bubbles, three bubbles, they're all instantly recognized as Gorns. Wide bubbles, round bubbles, long bubbles, they're all instantly recognized as Gorns.

All Klingons, in our view, should be instantly recognized as Klingons, so everything has two engines (with extra engines under the ship), long neck, wide rear hull, deckhouse on center back edge of the rear hull, etc.

It's just a design philosphy, and one that is firmly rooted in reality. Go look at the Graf Spee, Sharnhorst, and Bismarck (the German ones from World War II). They all look like they came from the same place, they just have two or three or four turrets. The US battleships from Michigan through Pennsylvania all look more or less alike, as do the last few classes look more or less alike.

So, in the end, our philosophy is that all Gorn ships look like Gorn ships (bubbles and two over-under engines), all Klingon ships look like Klingon ships, all Tholian ships look like Tholian ships, etc. [The Hydrans are an exception, but even they have lots of ships that look in groups. The CL, CM, CA, CC, BCH, all clearly come from the same mindset, even if they look nothing like the destroyers or frigates.] In the end, you asked why we did it this way, and our answer is "because we think it should be this way" and you asked us to do it another way and our answer is "we don't think that would be right, so we're not going to do it."

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:52 pm

Way to attack a brand new poster and an new player into the hobby.

A hobby created 30 years ago, with almost that much time of player assisted new development ---
Hard not to want something of yours in it, but that would entail rewriting history, which would be the equivalent of saying everyone that came before didn't matter ---

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:41 am

Guys,

Let's let this go. DG, while probably a bit too blunt, meant no harm. He asked his question, and got an answer from the game designer. Let's let it go and move on.

DG,

Your question was answered. Let's move on.

Thank you.