DefSat firing rules

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:57 am

(5L5b) Combat: Defense satellites cannot be fired at unless they have themselves fired (at an earlier point in the current Turn, or the previous Turn); this is on a satellite-by-satellite basis and does not allow simultaneous fire.

Does this mean that if a DefSat fires for the first time at a ship on the last Impulse of a Turn, that ship cannot fire at that DefSat until the next Turn?

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:58 am

That's the way I read it... and that's how we've been playing it...

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:14 pm

Yes, that is what it means. It also means that not only can that ship not fire until the next impulse (which happens to be in the following turn), but that ship cannot fire any any of the other satellites, either. It can only fire at the specific satellite that fired at the ship.

Hod K'el · Post by **Hod K'el** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:33 pm

So that means the DefSat can fire on T1I8 without return fire and then again on T2I1 with return/simo fire.

So what is the logic behind the concept of not firing at the DefSat before it fires? (Oh, yes, I see the enemy with the gun pointed at me, but I cannot fire at him because he has not fired at me!) [Remebering Vietnam...and the great victory from intelligent rules like this!]

wedge_hammersteel · Post by **wedge_hammersteel** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Perhaps they are cloaked or, for some other reason, the attacking ship cant see them and fire on them until the defense satellite fires first.

Dal Downing · Post by **Dal Downing** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:51 pm

Hod K'el wrote:So that means the DefSat can fire on T1I8 without return fire and then again on T2I1 with return/simo fire.

So what is the logic behind the concept of not firing at the DefSat before it fires? (Oh, yes, I see the enemy with the gun pointed at me, but I cannot fire at him because he has not fired at me!) [Remebering Vietnam...and the great victory from intelligent rules like this!]

Because there are no rules in FC for Hidden Deployment. In SFB These Satalites and Mines would deployed with Hidden Deployment and you woukld have to get close enough to literially run into them to find them. In FedCom they are deployed from the start but to simulate the Hidden Deployment Nature of these units you can not fire at them until you 'find them"

Besides if you could sit back and Sniper/Pick Off these units what would be the point of putting them in the game?

Sneaky Scot · Post by **Sneaky Scot** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:57 pm

I didn't think that DEFSATS could be deployed by hidden deployment in SFB! I do recall that they couldn't be fired at until they had fired, and I guess that this rule just ports it over from SFB.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:43 pm

I gotta quit asking questions that open so many cans of worms!

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:01 pm

DSs are not much bigger than mines, until they are locked onto a target, they don't transmit any signals, thats why they are all but hidden until your up close ---

Sgt_G · Post by **Sgt_G** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:57 pm

They're not "hidden" or "cloaked". Space is big, and ships are small. Each hex is 10,000,000 meters, but a ship is 200 meters. If a ship didn't have a warp field up, you'd never see it. You can't see a DefSat as they're in an un-powered orbit. You can't tell it from a weather satellite or simple space junk. Once it fires, you've got something to lock onto.

Dal Downing · Post by **Dal Downing** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:18 am

Did some digging when I got home...

From SFB (R1.15E) "...Use the detection rules for captor mines (M7.4)..."

From SFB (M7.41) "LOCK ON A Ship with active fire control can roll immediately for a lock on aginst any captor mine (even a chain or command controlled one with a disabled detnator) that fires a weapon during the impulse of firing. In such case the maximum sensor rating is "4" even if the ship has a higher rating..."

Basically you only have a 1 in 4 chance of locking on to a DefSat/CapMine once it fire. This being FedCom they got rid of about page or 2 of rules and said you can't hit it till after the impulse it has fired at you. Note I left out the the stuff on you can only detect mines when you get with 10 hexs of them or minesweeping.

Hod K'el · Post by **Hod K'el** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:43 pm

Sgt_G wrote:You can't tell it from a weather satellite or simple space junk. Once it fires, you've got something to lock onto.

But if my intentions are to bombard the planet back into the stone age, then I am going to take out those weather satelites and all other space debris. So I have a scout ship take is no better than any other ship for the detection of small objects in space? So why do I pay for scout ships to be in my fleet?

junior · Post by **junior** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:42 pm

If your intentions are to bombard the planet back to the stone age, then it's probably a planet that's important enough to merit more than just five small guns. Those types of planets will have a full array of orbital and ground defenses...

... and clearing out the random orbital junk to get rid of a few extra guns will be the LEAST of your worries...

If these are the only defenses that you're having to deal with, then you're probably only talking about a single raiding cruiser (or a couple of frigates) that are busy looking over their back for that patrolling cruiser that could show up at any moment now. Get in, trust your luck and tactics against the automated defenses, and get back out again before the local navy is breathing down your neck.

And if you had the time to clear out the local orbital debris, then there wouldn't be much of a scenario, now, would there?

Federation Commander

DefSat firing rules

DefSat firing rules

Simo

Re: Simo