the FRAX in FC, what do you think ?

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:09 pm

Well, I certainly wouldn't take one player's statements as reasons why I would quit a fun game. I also don't mind stating what I would like to see in this game.

1. I believe Frax should remain a simulator race.
2. I think there is absolutely nothing wrong about saying what ships you would like to see, be they big or small.
3. I believe that people who play this game are usually a more mature crowd. The others are still playing Pokemon.

4. I believe no one should ever name call except in good fun. Each of us should be treated with respect.
5. Lastly, you don't have to believe what I believe!

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:41 pm

Thanks Kahuna, that's made me feel a little better.

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:48 pm

To get this thread back on topic:
I enjoy playing the simulator races in SFB, and I like the Frax better than any of the rest...

Now, should they be in Federation Commander?
No, and yes.
No. There are many other things that need to be brought into Fed Comm before we worry about simulator races.
Support ships for Federation Admiral...
X-ships...
Gunboats (or PFs to the rest of you geezers)...
Vudar...
Andromedans...
CCHs...
Leader variants of the DDs/CWs...

Yes: Once the octant has been filled out nad the amount of out-standing items is reduced to a very few, non-critical additions... then and only then would I vote the the simulator Empires (and i mean all of them, not just the Frax) be introduced into the system. Now, if this can be done in a Breifing Fomat, I'll all for it - but after the experiences with FC:B2, this might not happen.

OK, that's my two Quatloos worth, YMMV.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:20 pm

Hod K'el wrote: Okay...let us start with item 1: when someone with experience offers ship that are stronger than what you want, TAKE THEM!

Well in a general sense if the ships that I want are the ships that fit into the sort of games I play then why would I want stronger ships that are less likely to be used?

Item 2: More phasers and control centers, which translates into more fleet control and better survivability.

I don't understand this fleet control thing, Is there a rule that gives a Flag bridge some special fleet wide ability?

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:13 pm

storeylf wrote:I don't understand this fleet control thing, Is there a rule that gives a Flag bridge some special fleet wide ability?

Not in FC, there isn't. That is an SFB-ism. In FC, they are just another control-system box.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:16 pm

OK, a few items here.

First, the list of ships I suggested was just a suggestion, not a prediction or edict. If someone thinks the list is wrong, then it is not only acceptable, but encouraged to say so. Quite frankly, I think Piney is right: I should have included the CL (well, CW, really). It was an oversight on my part.

Second, you don't need to call someone out like that. If you disagree the suggestion, fine. But, you really do not need to be so harsh. That was totally uncalled for.

Third, I did not suggest the FRAX submarines (or other weird stuff) for the example because my whole point would be to introduce their concept and sample ships, but not include any new rules. Those four ships (CC, CA, CW, DD, FF - choose four) do not require any new rules. (Yes, that means I junk the AFD, too. It isn't needed for normal FC.) Just four very different ships using already included technology.

Finally, this isn't for formal inclusion in FC via Boosters or Attacks or whatever. It is just an idea for a BoM style article in Captain's Log with a set of ships to use.

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:51 pm

While I have more of an interest in the FRA than the Frax, I wouldn't begrudge them a spot in the game system.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:56 pm

If you want a FRAX -- load up a battle pod on a hydran tug --

Frax one each ---

jeffery smith · Post by **jeffery smith** » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:34 am

MJWest: i would agree with you on the weird Frax items (no cloaking subs) AFD would have to be BoM but maybe we could try replacing it with a drone rack and a ph3 per AFD box ?, if or when they would be done (i am sure it won't be anytime soon,if ever ) as a nother of your captains log articles would be cool( loved the one in cl 39 on FC:EY).

Scoutdad: i agree their are several things that need to come before this.

As for the ship selection. BB, DN, BC/CC, CA, CL/CW, DW, FF would be great for facing off with anybody.but thats just my 2 cents( could not select just 4 because i would love to use them in fleet actions).

USS Enterprise · Post by **USS Enterprise** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:24 pm

In all honesty, all I know about the FRAX is that they are a simulator race which can shoot weapons while cloaked.

That being said, with only four ships to choose from from any race to exist (Note, not just for usage in my fleet, as was the original question) I would probably want something close to Pinecone's list. Probably a Frigate, a Light Cruiser, a Heavy Cruiser, and a Dreadnought.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:43 pm

jeffery smith wrote:MJWest: i would agree with you on the weird Frax items (no cloaking subs) AFD would have to be BoM but maybe we could try replacing it with a drone rack and a ph3 per AFD box ?, if or when they would be done (i am sure it won't be anytime soon,if ever ) as a nother of your captains log articles would be cool( loved the one in cl 39 on FC:EY).

Well, normally an AFD is just an ADD and Ph-G in a single box. However, usually on non-command ships the AFD is replaced with a simple Ph-3. My intention would be to simply use the single Ph-3 in place of any potential AFD on all ships, even a DN, BC, or CC.

Again, I would intend for the first look to be with no new technology at all. If there is sufficient interest, then other weird stuff can be added over time.

Besides, the AFD is intended to provide the extreme of drone defense. In general, I don't see drone appearing in such numbers in Federation Commander that the AFD is justified. In fact, it could potentially unbalance things in their favor against the Klingons and Kzintis. Using the more pedestrian Ph-3 in the first introduction should allow more experience to be gained before using the potentially overkill AFD.

Hod K'el · Post by **Hod K'el** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:05 pm

mjwest wrote: Well, normally an AFD is just an ADD and Ph-G in a single box. However, usually on non-command ships the AFD is replaced with a simple Ph-3. My intention would be to simply use the single Ph-3 in place of any potential AFD on all ships, even a DN, BC, or CC.

Again, I would intend for the first look to be with no new technology at all. If there is sufficient interest, then other weird stuff can be added over time.

Besides, the AFD is intended to provide the extreme of drone defense. In general, I don't see drone appearing in such numbers in Federation Commander that the AFD is justified. In fact, it could potentially unbalance things in their favor against the Klingons and Kzintis. Using the more pedestrian Ph-3 in the first introduction should allow more experience to be gained before using the potentially overkill AFD.

The first thing that got me with the above quotation was 'overkill'. Then I got to thinking about it. With no scatter packs in FC, this makes sense, but I would like to present this consideration: AFD = ADD @ R3, ADD @ R2, then PH-3 @ R1, therefore why not offer at least a PH-G for the FRAX in FC since that weapon is already in the game (and no one is forced to learn a new weapon) and that weapon proximates the AFD closer than any other weapon? [Just thinking out loud.]

gar1138 · Post by **gar1138** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:25 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the AFD only target size class 6 or 7 units in SFB? That would severely limit it's usefulness in FC, since there are not as many drones out and there are no fighters other than the Stingers. It seems like replacing the AFD with a phaser-G would have to have the same target size class restriction, otherwise the combat potential of the Frax would increase dramatically.

Garrett

jeffery smith · Post by **jeffery smith** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:35 am

i would agree with MJWest on this one. drones are not a huge issue and since fighters will be BoM(except for the Hydrans naturally). AFD's are not neccessary, but if ADD's along with fighters for all race's are presented in BoM i would think that would be the time for AFD's. If we give the Frax Ph-G's i think it should be treated like the LDR's Ph-3/Ph-G refit. one Ph-G for every 2 Ph-3's (AFD's)replaced.

Hod K'el · Post by **Hod K'el** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:03 pm

jeffery smith wrote:i would agree with MJWest on this one. drones are not a huge issue and since fighters will be BoM(except for the Hydrans naturally). AFD's are not neccessary, but if ADD's along with fighters for all race's are presented in BoM i would think that would be the time for AFD's. If we give the Frax Ph-G's i think it should be treated like the LDR's Ph-3/Ph-G refit. one Ph-G for every 2 Ph-3's (AFD's)replaced.

Well, I was thinking that you are actually replacing a ADD and a PH-3. Since you have one for the right side and one for the left side, and since they have better than average odds at killing a flock of incoming drones, then the PH-G would be a close equivalent because once you have fired it, you have shot your wad and cannot fire again whereas the ADD could re-engage.

Federation Commander