PF's in BoM?

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:38 pm

Sure, if we don't have to have 6 ships everytime, then that could be cool. I just don't want the headache of playing a flotilla again.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:14 pm

Like I said one time about Andromedan's --

You don't want the headache, don't play them, the people wanting to play either are willing to put up with that headache ---
Let them deal with whatever the rules require ---

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:59 pm

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:Like I said one time about Andromedan's --

You don't want the headache, don't play them, the people wanting to play either are willing to put up with that headache ---
Let them deal with whatever the rules require ---

I think you might be missing the point. The point is to hope for, nay encourage simplicity remain in FC. As myself and many others have responded, we'd like to see MOST of SFB material make its way into FC. We'd love the option to play them. However, we want it done in a way that keeps the gameplay simple, fast, clean, and still fun to play. If the extra clutter are allowed into FC, then they will invariably have to be played. Someone from my group will want to run PFs because they're fun and available. Someone will want to run a carrier or a SCS. Someone will want a tender with its full flotilla. Someone will read the scenarios and think that one looks fun.

If I wanted to play with all the headaches that you call them, I would play SFB. That option is already there for us. I currently play FC because I chose to avoid the extra headaches I used to get from playing a long session of SFB.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:12 pm

Just to be clear, gunboats does NOT necessarily equal tenders, carriers, and SCSs. Those are all independent and separate decision points.

If "gunboats" are added to FC proper, that doesn't have to mean anything other than overgunned mini-ships now being available in the ship selection. Really, it would not be any different than adding in police cutter sized ships with real weapons.

Adding in tenders and gunboat leaders is a separate issue. If they can be easily added without disrupting the overall game, great. If not, they can be dropped or ignored while still including gunboats.

Carriers and SCSs are a completely different issue. We already know that fighters are BoM, so neither of those should be a concern or discussion point, really. If gunboats need to be only in BoM, then argue that point on its own merits. Please don't drag fighters, carriers, and SCSs into it when they don't need to be.

EDIT: I am not saying gunboats will be, or even should be, in FC proper. I am just asking that the issue at hand not be confused with the core issue at hand by adding in ancillary (SCS) and irrelevant (fighter) issues.

jeffery smith · Post by **jeffery smith** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:04 am

you may also want to review the topics that have gone before on this and the fighter issue. it will give you a better ideal of what not to "rehash" in this topic.

Hod K'el · Post by **Hod K'el** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:32 am

I like the idea of having gunboats as a BOM II item. Don't have to use them if you don't want them.

'Just to be clear, gunboats does NOT necessarily equal tenders, carriers, and SCSs. Those are all independent and separate decision points.'

And in this case I agree, but my vote is for a BIG (read this as a FLEET) carrier. 24 fighters or 32 fighters or ??? I won't say another thinig about gunboats if I get a big carrier...hint, hint.

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:27 pm

If some kind of SCS or PFT is ever done in BoM to match gunboats, would it be better to have the Fleet Scale flotillas be the same size as in Squadron Scale (and make Fleet Scale PF cards) or to simply halve the number of boats in a Fleet-scale flotilla?

I kind of like the second option, since it would be in proportion with the number of mech links the Fleet scale tender would likely have - but some empires' flotillas might not scale down properly.

Alpha, Baduvai and Qixa gunboats come in flotillas of 6 - which could go down to 3 in Fleet Scale. The likes of the Iridani or MÃ¦srons use 4 (2 in FS) while the Drex go for 8 (4 in FS)...

...but some empires, like the Koligahr and Loriyill, have 5 to a flotilla instead. Rounding them up to 3, or down to 2, in Fleet Scale might be a tricky call to make.

And if booster packs are not to make it over, that could make the Baduvai gunboat that bit more competitive in its weight class - though would the afterburner system for Omega boats also go?

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:02 pm

I certainly don't want to rehash this stuff if someone has already posted in it six months ago, but...

If they look at each gunboat as a small ship, then it wouldn't work to have flotillas at only half size. I'd think the gunboats would have to be.

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:06 pm

I agree with Kahuna. What You're suggesting (though this is no blow against you), is like the Fleet Scale Plasma Ships, using the first idea (Use only half the normal power for each plasma). It just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of Fleet Scale. If you play a Fleet scale scenario, there is the same amount of ships, just that they are smaller.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:19 pm

And there's an idea to think about. How do you get a Fleet Scale PF?

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:53 pm

Wouldn't fleet scale PFs just be Heavy Fighters ---

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:21 pm

Another curious thing to see developed. Currently, fighter numbers are halved in fleet scale. But, if Gunboats are just small ships, then their power and weapons would also be halved. Hehe, essentially just heavy fighters with their own energy allocation and weapon(s) chart. I know the crew is working on all of this, but it will be a curious thing to see get developed.

jmt · Post by **jmt** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:37 pm

Kahuna wrote:Another curious thing to see developed. Currently, fighter numbers are halved in fleet scale. But, if Gunboats are just small ships, then their power and weapons would also be halved. Hehe, essentially just heavy fighters with their own energy allocation and weapon(s) chart. I know the crew is working on all of this, but it will be a curious thing to see get developed.

Would there even be a fleet scale version of a single gun boat?

In Squadron scale, gunboats could be either in flotillas (planetary defense or base station defense) or as 1-2 ships to fill out the remaining points in a 500-point fleet game.

In Fleet scale, a single gunboat might be too small to record. Rather would you get 2 for 1 - 2 ships on a single card with their own power chart (like with the unarmed transport) and bought as a single "ship".

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:25 pm

Aha,

And then we'd end up with a flotilla as a single unit, halving its size for fleet action. Hmmm, I like it, but we'll see what they decide to do. I've always been for (and currently do so in my house rules) combining fighters into 3 fighter flights and, by extension, I'd like to do Gunboats as 3 unit flotillas.

However, I'm sure Steve and the crew will have a really neat and clean way for us to do these once BoM rolls out.

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:44 pm

But the whole point with gunboats is that they are not 'true' starships anyway.

If you keep the numbers in a flotilla the same, how do you deal with the mech links on their tenders? In theory, you could say that each link can handle 2 boats in Fleet Scale, but that sounds a bit on the messy side for me.

Leaving the issue of scaling down the odd flotillas aside, I'd still say that going with the fighter option might be the way to go.

For what it's worth.

Federation Commander

PF's in BoM?

pf's in BoM

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