Braking energy

[storeylf]

I was just checking up some stuff on reverse movement and have got a bit confused by some odd wording.

2C5b - "Before a ship can reverse direction ... it must pay braking energy" but this is not paid if it was "moving in the opposite direction (2c5) at the end of the previous turn"

2C5 is just the blurb part of the section, and talks about moving backwards. What is opposite direction referring to? Is it literally opposite direction to what it wants, or does it just mean moving backwards?

If it means literally 'opposite direction' and I was wanting to reverse direction from forward to reverse then I was moving in the opposite direction so don't pay (hence no point in stopping either)? On the other hand if it just means moving backwards and I am wanting to change from reverse to forwrad then I would not have to pay as I was moving backwards?

2C5b clearly seems to say that if you reverse direction you pay braking energy, and going from reverse to forward is a reverse of direction just like switching to reverse from forward. But the exception leaves one reversal exempt which ever interperetation I give it. Or is it the term reverse direction that is being badly used, and is just meant to mean move backwards rather than 'reverse direction'.

So what is the intent?

That was what I was looking at the rule for - I was checking up whether a reversing ship needed to stop previously before going forward again.

[Mike]

deleted

[mjwest]

I didn't really follow your interpretations, but that is OK. I am confirming the intent, but I am pretty sure the meaning is this:
[EDIT: Yes, it is.]

Any time you intend to reverse your direction (either forward -> backwards, or backwards -> forward) you must pay braking energy. The only exception is if you are stopped (in which case you have no "direction" that needs reversing).

The phrase in question is meant to say that you don't pay braking energy to move in reverse if you are already moving in reverse. However, that is kinda unnecessary (as the direction isn't actually changing) and (as you pointed out) potentially confusing. But it is just there to say that the braking energy is not a surcharge required for moving backwards, but rather a charge for quickly changing direction.

[storeylf]

Sounds like the intent is what I was expecting, even if it isn't what the rule book says.

FYI My interpretation was to first take it as it states in the rule book, you pay no brake energy if you were prevously stopped or were moving in the opposite direction. The problem with that, is that by definition when you reverse direction you were moving in the opposite direction on the previous turn, hence never pay brake energy. That seems daft - why even have the rule at all in that case, hence I was looking for an alternative interpretation, which is why I followed the reference to 2C5 that appears in the paragraph, and substituted in a reference to 'moving backwards' instead of 'opposite direction', that leads to not paying brake energy if you are going from reverse to forwards.

I would suggest removing the exceptions - neither ever actually apply, there is no direction to reverse if you were stopped and opposite direction in the previous turn is a given. Some example text would be better to clarify this rather than confuse the rules themselves.

[jairb]

If it really does need a rewording, then it should probably be restated in terms of shield facings. You can only move in the direction faced by your #1 or #4 shield. If you change from one to the other, you're "reversing direction" and must pay braking energy or stop to do so.

[ericphillips]

I may be missing something here, so fill me in if you can:

My thought is why pay for braking? Since you cannot mix forward and reverse movement in the same turn, and to reverse your movement you need to stopped first, why not just Emergency Decelerate. This costs Zero, actually can help you by giving you energy for reinforcement (not much, especially because you would do this close tot he end of a turn), then you are "stopped."

Next turn just pay to move in the other direction. There is a note in the rules in (2C5b) that says "Tactical note: perform an Emergency Deceleration on Impulse #8 if you are sure you want to reverse direction next turn."

Actually, you do not have to be sure. From stopped you can pay to either go forward or backward without penalty. The only penalty is the ship cannot turn or slip on the first hex of movement, but that penalty is the same for both "Speed Zero" and "Stopped." No big deal.

[storeylf]

I may be missing something here, so fill me in if you can:

My thought is why pay for braking? Since you cannot mix forward and reverse movement in the same turn, and to reverse your movement you need to stopped first, why not just Emergency Decelerate. This costs Zero, actually can help you by giving you energy for reinforcement (not much, especially because you would do this close tot he end of a turn), then you are "stopped."

Next turn just pay to move in the other direction. There is a note in the rules in (2C5b) that says "Tactical note: perform an Emergency Deceleration on Impulse #8 if you are sure you want to reverse direction next turn."

Actually, you do not have to be sure. From stopped you can pay to either go forward or backward without penalty. The only penalty is the ship cannot turn or slip on the first hex of movement, but that penalty is the same for both "Speed Zero" and "Stopped." No big deal.

You are right, you can stop in impulse 8. There are 2 issues with that.

1) You emergnecy decel during speed change of the impulse (or not explicitly during speed change, but before any of the sub pulses). You generally really do not want to lose your impulse 8 movement. No only are you possibly about to get outmanouvered this impulse you may be opening your self to being in bad position on the next impulse as weapons recycle.

2) It signals to the opponent that you are considering a reverse of direction. You might be faking, but certainly where I play no one emergency decels (yet) just to fake you out, not given the loss of impulse 8 movement.

[ericphillips]

Well, as long as someone is not on your butt, it seems like a good plan, even better with the confusion factor. (/manical laughter)

[pmiller13]

The only penalty is the ship cannot turn or slip on the first hex of movement, but that penalty is the same for both "Speed Zero" and "Stopped." No big deal.

The penalty is a little more that that you just can't turn or side slip out of the hex your in. By coming to a complete stop you have completely reset your turn mode to zero. So unless you are going to be going very slow (not generally a good idea) it will be several movements before you can actually turn.

[ericphillips]

The penalty is a little more that that you just can't turn or side slip out of the hex your in. By coming to a complete stop you have completely reset your turn mode to zero. So unless you are going to be going very slow (not generally a good idea) it will be several movements before you can actually turn.

I kinda disagree, I think. If I emergency decelerated at the start of Impulse 8, on the next EA I can choose any baseline speed. However, the first hex is limited.

From (2C3b): "a unit which was "stopped" on the previous turn and is moving on this turn cannot turn or sideslip before moving out of the hex because its turn and sideslip modes are at zero." So, you just have to move forward 1 hex., unless I am playing wrong.

[Kang]

You could always do a tactical maneuver in the final impulse to point the way you want to go next turn.....

Telegraphing, I know, but it's still an option.

[storeylf]

The penalty is a little more that that you just can't turn or side slip out of the hex your in. By coming to a complete stop you have completely reset your turn mode to zero. So unless you are going to be going very slow (not generally a good idea) it will be several movements before you can actually turn.

I kinda disagree, I think. If I emergency decelerated at the start of Impulse 8, on the next EA I can choose any baseline speed. However, the first hex is limited.

From (2C3b): "a unit which was "stopped" on the previous turn and is moving on this turn cannot turn or sideslip before moving out of the hex because its turn and sideslip modes are at zero." So, you just have to move forward 1 hex., unless I am playing wrong.

Yes you will be able to side slip as you will then have fulfilled your side slip requirement, but you will not be able to turn unless your turn mode is fulfilled - it will be at 1 after moving 1 hex, so if your turn mode is 4 then you will need to move another 3 hexes after that first hex before turning normally. The rule isn't that you cannot turn or slip from the hex you stopped in, the rule is that your turn and slip are set to zero hence you can't slip or turn out of your hex.

admittedly this another one of thsoe areas where the rule book has maybe confused some by mixing in 'example' text into the actual rule sections. The statement of not being able to slip or turn is a given due to the slip/turn reset from stopping and was not really needed.

[Savedfromwhat]

Storyelf is correct it is the same procedure as an het for some reason the rulebook likes to mix up its examples occasionaly ;P

[Bolo_MK_XL]

If you stopped to change movement direction -- and really need to turn, there is always the High Energy Turn ---

[ericphillips]

... admittedly this another one of thsoe areas where the rule book has maybe confused some by mixing in 'example' text into the actual rule sections. The statement of not being able to slip or turn is a given due to the slip/turn reset from stopping and was not really needed.

Then i have been playing it wrong. Yeah, i did not get that from the rules. Thanks for the clarity.