Far Country notwithstanding!Bolo_MK_XL wrote:Battletech would be a good example -- but that Universe/Dimension had no cultures other than Terran ---
SFU Background History: Mirror Universe / 20-21st Century ?
Moderators: mjwest, Albiegamer
-
domingojs23
- Lieutenant SG
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 9:46 pm
- Location: Wellington NZ
Dear Friends,
Thanks for the responses !
Well, I had always been an enthusiast of alternate history, and any excuse to carry on the Napoleonic Wars, WWII and the Cold War into space. I very much would like to see some part of the vast unused SFU Galaxy real estate set aside for projected Earth empires, as an officially sanctioned realm.
Indeed, we had seen some of this in the TOS, like the cited Ekosian-Nazis, Khom/Yang war, as well as Romans, Chicago Mobsters, etc. projected one way or the other onto the TOS setting. (Hmmm....Orion Pirate descendants of Tony Soprano anyone ?.....)
And yes, Battletech is a wonderful example of this sort of projection.
I do hope some support can be garnered for the establishment of at least a sector, if not an octant, set aside for Earth descendant empires in the SFU.
Cheers,
Gary
Thanks for the responses !
Well, I had always been an enthusiast of alternate history, and any excuse to carry on the Napoleonic Wars, WWII and the Cold War into space. I very much would like to see some part of the vast unused SFU Galaxy real estate set aside for projected Earth empires, as an officially sanctioned realm.
Indeed, we had seen some of this in the TOS, like the cited Ekosian-Nazis, Khom/Yang war, as well as Romans, Chicago Mobsters, etc. projected one way or the other onto the TOS setting. (Hmmm....Orion Pirate descendants of Tony Soprano anyone ?.....)
And yes, Battletech is a wonderful example of this sort of projection.
I do hope some support can be garnered for the establishment of at least a sector, if not an octant, set aside for Earth descendant empires in the SFU.
Cheers,
Gary
We already have Omega's FRA and Triangulum's Human Republic* - and the Humans would likely have an entirely different take on starship design due to their divergent origins (even the FRA has a more distinct Alpha Octant design heritage in their fleet).
Plus, the Human Republic uses Powered Battle Armor...
I'm not sure how many other human empires there should be out there, as opposed to focusing on something the likes of Battletech doesn't do (unless you count the Tetatae) - alien civilizations.
*That said, the Human Republic are still waiting to be published as part of a full Triangulum module, so hopefully there can be enough interest in M33 as a setting to make such a module viable.
Plus, the Human Republic uses Powered Battle Armor...
I'm not sure how many other human empires there should be out there, as opposed to focusing on something the likes of Battletech doesn't do (unless you count the Tetatae) - alien civilizations.
*That said, the Human Republic are still waiting to be published as part of a full Triangulum module, so hopefully there can be enough interest in M33 as a setting to make such a module viable.
In the same way that the Command & Conquer Red Alert series has offended folks? Granted, The Allies, Soviets and Imperial Japan units & commanders were all done in satire with a whole lot of ham.pinecone wrote:
Funny. But it might offend someone and lose ADB sales or even get a lawsuite filed.
.... Dangit. Now I want to loop Hell March 2 (Read Alert 2s opening track) when playing the klingon invasion in F&E.
I'm wise enough to know that I don't know half as much as I think I know, you know?
-
ThorSilver
- Ensign
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 2:22 pm
As someone who used to have spirited debates on Tuesdays at the pub with members of the Socialist Worker's Party, I would say 'No, no it wouldn't.' In fact they'd probably be pleased at the implication that communism had persevered into the age of space colonisationpinecone wrote: Funny
I'm all for Space Commies personally, but adding them into the mix of pre-existing races in an official capacity sounds like a continuity nightmare waiting to happen. After all, if they're in the Alpha Octant where've they been all this time? If they're off in another part of the galaxy, how'd they end up there, and how do we surround them with interesting foes?
ThorSilver, now that's really funny! Space communists would be an interesting addition. As for how they got there, who ever said that only humans could be communists?
I could so see a Vulcan commy saying "It's logical that everyone should have healthcare, an equal ammount of money, and should listen to everything we say." 
-
Dan Ibekwe
- Commander
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:06 pm
- Location: Manchester UK
We already have the LDR, followers of Chairman Miow.
Why restrict politics to humans? One race in the Babylon 5 universe didn't recognise *any* property rights - unless you were actually using or physically holding onto an item, it was fair game for anyone else to take. Amongst themselves, this was accepted and understood; it made relations with off-worlders strained at best.
Especially when applied to hyperspace navigation beacons.
The same people tended to change their government(s) and business managements every few days - individuals sometimes joined their military for a quieter and less stressful life.
Or you could have someting like Logan's Run, where everyone gets euthanased at a certain age. Or at any rate, is supposed to (Runners!).
Or a society where everyone is practically immortal - TOS touched on this in the episode Miri, which was thought to be so disturbing that it wasn't shown on British TV for years.
Or a politiical structure like the Venetian Republic, that was expressely designed to be incomprehensible to everybody, including the rulers, to avoid anyone gaining undue influence (one 16th century Doge did figure it out, but when the Segneurie realised he had, they had him beheaded. Just to discourage anyone else).
Or hereditary rule as carried out at some periods by the Persians and the Turks - any of the ruler's sons could become king whe the old man dropped off the perch, so the first thing that happened after the state funeral was a very literally fratricidal civil war until only one candidate was left (Lyrans, I'm looking at YOU).
There are far more interesting places to go than just the Nazis or the Communists...
Why restrict politics to humans? One race in the Babylon 5 universe didn't recognise *any* property rights - unless you were actually using or physically holding onto an item, it was fair game for anyone else to take. Amongst themselves, this was accepted and understood; it made relations with off-worlders strained at best.
Especially when applied to hyperspace navigation beacons.
The same people tended to change their government(s) and business managements every few days - individuals sometimes joined their military for a quieter and less stressful life.
Or you could have someting like Logan's Run, where everyone gets euthanased at a certain age. Or at any rate, is supposed to (Runners!).
Or a society where everyone is practically immortal - TOS touched on this in the episode Miri, which was thought to be so disturbing that it wasn't shown on British TV for years.
Or a politiical structure like the Venetian Republic, that was expressely designed to be incomprehensible to everybody, including the rulers, to avoid anyone gaining undue influence (one 16th century Doge did figure it out, but when the Segneurie realised he had, they had him beheaded. Just to discourage anyone else).
Or hereditary rule as carried out at some periods by the Persians and the Turks - any of the ruler's sons could become king whe the old man dropped off the perch, so the first thing that happened after the state funeral was a very literally fratricidal civil war until only one candidate was left (Lyrans, I'm looking at YOU).
There are far more interesting places to go than just the Nazis or the Communists...
We are Hydrans! NO ONE LIKES US!
-
ThorSilver
- Ensign
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 2:22 pm
Dan, those are some great points and ideas! I think though that part of the attraction of Space Nazis/Commies/whatever is that there's a certain thrill to be gained by fighting against alternate-future-history versions of our historical adversaries. We could certainly make more creative economic/political systems without going back to those, but then we wouldn't get to blast the Space Nazis!
Plus, then we'd have a simple task when it came to pitting these new empires against each other... Seems to me Space Fascists and Space Commies might have a few bones to pick with one another
Plus, then we'd have a simple task when it came to pitting these new empires against each other... Seems to me Space Fascists and Space Commies might have a few bones to pick with one another
There could be an entire "empire" in one leg of the galaxy. But the "Empire" is more of a caotic political system in which fleets of varying political factions fight more than just debates. The Space Communists and Space Nazis (until we decide on better names for them) are always battling each other over territory in hopes of causing the public to fear them. The Space Socialists are what remain of the original "government" before it broke down into the seperate factions, but they are working only to rally support for their cause by giving money to people, rather than building a fleet to regain control. The Space Rebublic is a place of free voting and buisness owning. But while the Republic citizens are safe, they republic cannot expand because their fleet cannot match that of the SN or SC. The Space Anarchists don't have any control, and are merely the "pirates" of that area. What do you guys think?
Some of these ideas are touched upon already, by some of the empires seen in the Omega Octant, Lesser Magellanic Cloud and Triangulum Galaxy... as well as hinted at on the map of the Milky Way Galaxy itself.
*If you want a very long-lived species, there are the Helgardians. They each live for about a thousand years, but have a very slow rate of reproduction. In their home dimension, they spent ten thousand years meticulously building up a massive inter-stellar empire; however, the realm they have in 'our' M33 (their home system was mysteriously transplanted across dimensions) is much smaller, since they have 'only' had about 1000 years in which to build it up.
Plus, the Chlorophons in Omega are sentient trees, which have a lifespan of something in the order of 2200 years!
(No-one knows how long a member of the mysterious Loriyill species lives for, however.)
*On the other hand, if you want social Darwinism gone mad, there are two potential options - the Cloud's Eneen and Triangulum's Mallarans.
The Eneen come from a highly radioactive planet, which they evolved to deal with. However, the form of evolution their species took had both benefits and drawbacks; it allows them to both live for 600 years and to reproduce parthogenetically if they cannot (or choose not to) find a partner, but causes at least 10% of all births to be nonviable mutations. Thus, they maintain a draconian eugenics program which would leave your average Federation envoy reeling...
...and they aren't too nice to their subject worlds, either.
The Mallarans used to be a fairly peaceful lot. However, a great plague hit Mallara, leaving the population sterile. So, they developed a machine intelligence called Overmind to counter it... only the AI had other ideas.
Sure, it 'helped'; by taking total control of the population, setting up cloning techniques to propagate the species, then ensuring the loyalty of the citizenry by holding sway over which person's genetic legacy would be passed on to the next 'generation' or not.
However, Overmind soon found its cloning method to have long-term degradation issues; so decided upon culling as much useful genetic material from alien planets as it could, in order to keep the species alive.
Cue a full-on attempt to harvest the gene pools of conquered worlds, and all of the wars that inevitably follow.
*If you want an un-naturally short-lived populace, there are the many hosts of another Triangulum species; the tiny Arachnids.
These tiny spiders latch on to a victim's cerebral cortex, allowing it complete control over many (but not all; Helgardians and a few others are immune) species. However, doing this wears the host out faster than normal, dramatically shortening their life expectancy.
The Arachnids tried 'farming' their subjugated worlds, allowing their populations to grow before selecting the next batch of hosts. Yet, this allows for no more than a stagnation of their overall numbers. So, they pretty much see the full-on conquest of M33 as the way forward.
Funnily enough, the Mallarans and others have ideas of their own. Cue giant 'splosions in space.
*Also, if you wanted a large, yet potentially fractured power, there is yet another Triangulum option; the Imperium. In an older era, most of the current Imperium's member species were under the control of the Ancient Ones, under an Old Empire they saw as benevolent. (However, the rest of the known galaxy saw the Old Empire as tyrannical.)
Eventually, the Old Empire collapsed when another species (known as the 'Saviors' outside of the Imperium, and as the 'Usurpers' within) rallied the support of certain subject species and overthrew the old order.
In the wake of this devastating Annihilation War, the two camps went in different ways. The Frigians, a former major subject species which was the largest contributor to the rebel forces, founded their own Kingdom. Meanwhile, many of the loyalist species formed the Imperium, in the mould of the Old Empire (or as close as they could get to it, perhaps).
The two sides aren't friends.
However, the Imperium itself is not always united. One member, the Edurian Theocracy, eventually split into a loyalist Edurian realm and an Order of Ultimate Truth splinter empire, beyond Imperial space.
Plus, in the modern era, the remaining Imperial powers have to contend with an array of upstart 'young empires', such as the Arachnids and Mallarans, and even the Human Republic I mentioned earleir in the thread.
(I have a copy of CL23 inbound, as part of a recent order. It's got preview info about the Imperial fleet. I'm looking forward to seeing what they've got so far!)
There are other examples I could call upon. In short, things start to get really interesting once you take a look beyond the Alpha Octant, in my humble view at least.
*If you want a very long-lived species, there are the Helgardians. They each live for about a thousand years, but have a very slow rate of reproduction. In their home dimension, they spent ten thousand years meticulously building up a massive inter-stellar empire; however, the realm they have in 'our' M33 (their home system was mysteriously transplanted across dimensions) is much smaller, since they have 'only' had about 1000 years in which to build it up.
Plus, the Chlorophons in Omega are sentient trees, which have a lifespan of something in the order of 2200 years!
(No-one knows how long a member of the mysterious Loriyill species lives for, however.)
*On the other hand, if you want social Darwinism gone mad, there are two potential options - the Cloud's Eneen and Triangulum's Mallarans.
The Eneen come from a highly radioactive planet, which they evolved to deal with. However, the form of evolution their species took had both benefits and drawbacks; it allows them to both live for 600 years and to reproduce parthogenetically if they cannot (or choose not to) find a partner, but causes at least 10% of all births to be nonviable mutations. Thus, they maintain a draconian eugenics program which would leave your average Federation envoy reeling...
...and they aren't too nice to their subject worlds, either.
The Mallarans used to be a fairly peaceful lot. However, a great plague hit Mallara, leaving the population sterile. So, they developed a machine intelligence called Overmind to counter it... only the AI had other ideas.
Sure, it 'helped'; by taking total control of the population, setting up cloning techniques to propagate the species, then ensuring the loyalty of the citizenry by holding sway over which person's genetic legacy would be passed on to the next 'generation' or not.
However, Overmind soon found its cloning method to have long-term degradation issues; so decided upon culling as much useful genetic material from alien planets as it could, in order to keep the species alive.
Cue a full-on attempt to harvest the gene pools of conquered worlds, and all of the wars that inevitably follow.
*If you want an un-naturally short-lived populace, there are the many hosts of another Triangulum species; the tiny Arachnids.
These tiny spiders latch on to a victim's cerebral cortex, allowing it complete control over many (but not all; Helgardians and a few others are immune) species. However, doing this wears the host out faster than normal, dramatically shortening their life expectancy.
The Arachnids tried 'farming' their subjugated worlds, allowing their populations to grow before selecting the next batch of hosts. Yet, this allows for no more than a stagnation of their overall numbers. So, they pretty much see the full-on conquest of M33 as the way forward.
Funnily enough, the Mallarans and others have ideas of their own. Cue giant 'splosions in space.
*Also, if you wanted a large, yet potentially fractured power, there is yet another Triangulum option; the Imperium. In an older era, most of the current Imperium's member species were under the control of the Ancient Ones, under an Old Empire they saw as benevolent. (However, the rest of the known galaxy saw the Old Empire as tyrannical.)
Eventually, the Old Empire collapsed when another species (known as the 'Saviors' outside of the Imperium, and as the 'Usurpers' within) rallied the support of certain subject species and overthrew the old order.
In the wake of this devastating Annihilation War, the two camps went in different ways. The Frigians, a former major subject species which was the largest contributor to the rebel forces, founded their own Kingdom. Meanwhile, many of the loyalist species formed the Imperium, in the mould of the Old Empire (or as close as they could get to it, perhaps).
The two sides aren't friends.
However, the Imperium itself is not always united. One member, the Edurian Theocracy, eventually split into a loyalist Edurian realm and an Order of Ultimate Truth splinter empire, beyond Imperial space.
Plus, in the modern era, the remaining Imperial powers have to contend with an array of upstart 'young empires', such as the Arachnids and Mallarans, and even the Human Republic I mentioned earleir in the thread.
(I have a copy of CL23 inbound, as part of a recent order. It's got preview info about the Imperial fleet. I'm looking forward to seeing what they've got so far!)
There are other examples I could call upon. In short, things start to get really interesting once you take a look beyond the Alpha Octant, in my humble view at least.
-
domingojs23
- Lieutenant SG
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 9:46 pm
- Location: Wellington NZ
Very true ! They could be Canadians !pinecone wrote:
Space communists would be an interesting addition. As for how they got there, who ever said that only humans could be communists?
Half-kidding aside, this is a cool idea. Taken to its logical -ahem- conclusion, collectivist thinking would ultimately result in something like the Borg, assimilation of all sentient species encountered.-
Bolo_MK_XL
- Captain
- Posts: 835
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:00 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Omega's Mirn (a land-octopus species, which uses the space-dwelling Alunda as their living ships) have a communist government, partly due to their emergence in a resource-poor star system.
And if you want space bees, there are the Hivers!
Oh, and to take things in the opposite direction, the Qixa have a govermnent where corporations, not individuals, have the vote, while the Waet Republic in Triangulum was subverted by the Uni-Corp firm.
And if you want space bees, there are the Hivers!
Oh, and to take things in the opposite direction, the Qixa have a govermnent where corporations, not individuals, have the vote, while the Waet Republic in Triangulum was subverted by the Uni-Corp firm.