How would you deal with an ISC CS tournament fleet?

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:17 pm

Not having W&P yet, but I recall the rear firing Fs are limited to 1 firing at a ship per TURN ---

wedge_hammersteel · Post by **wedge_hammersteel** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:00 pm

Yes but I think of drone defense. If your ship has 6 rear firing plasma Fs, you can fire all 6 at drones or you can fire 1 at a ship and the other 5 at drones.

It puzzled me why a "In Your Face" kind of empire (the ISC) would have rear firing plasmas. It seemed to me that those were more of a "fleeing the battle" defensive type weapon.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:37 pm

IIRC --

When you use the launcher in one mode it disables the other mode --

Either use it vs ship (1 launch) or drones --

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:40 pm

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:IIRC --

When you use the launcher in one mode it disables the other mode --

Either use it vs ship (1 launch) or drones --

Nope. Wedge got it right. You may launch one torpedo at "ships", and any number (that you have available) at drones or shuttles. All in the same turn, if you want.

wedge_hammersteel wrote:It puzzled me why a "In Your Face" kind of empire (the ISC) would have rear firing plasmas. It seemed to me that those were more of a "fleeing the battle" defensive type weapon.

Think of it as "covering your rear", rather than "fleeing the battle". The ISC have to know their major ships can't turn well. So, they use the rear-firing Pl-F to cover themselves in those situations.

It isn't that they are running away; they just can't always turn fast enough ...

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:53 pm

The ISC never runs away. They simply advance in the other direction...

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:59 pm

terryoc wrote:The ISC never runs away. They simply advance in the other direction...

Is that what you call the move orders issued to the CA in pbem FC0001???

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:07 am

storeylf wrote:
mojo jojo wrote:How was it 20+ damage? 12 PH1 would be a difference of 10 damage between range 8 and 9.
I wasn't sure how many phasers had fired. But you took about ~27 damage going down to 5 on a full front shield (I think a mohawk has 32). Given the amount of damage, I was assuming rather more than 12 ph1s.

At most he had 20ph1 which average 3 damage at range 9 against EM. Even allowing for excellent luck I wouldn't have expected more than 7. That is a 20+ difference between what you might have expeceted and actually took.

Even going purely by averages, At range 8 he averages 20 but allowing for variance can certainly do better, and the spread is higher at range 8. You are looking at 17 extra damage on average and a noticeable chance of 20+.

Even with 12ph1s I wouldn't be handing my opponent an extra 10 average damage without a good reason. It's a given that he will fire at the end of the turn in that situation, you can't. Only close if it really does look like the extra hex is going to be absolutely crucial to whatever you are trying to achieve. Hydran fusion ships need to close fast, but not blindly.

Edit: You do realize that the FF were at range 3 at the end of turn 1 don't you? They were well ahead of the CS.
Oopps - yes I did read that, and then forgot about that when querying the turn away.

10 pts of extra damage did not make the difference in this fight. The only thing I can think of that may make a difference is if the Hydran didn't EM in turn 2. That would've resulted in 4 additional pulses hitting from PPDs, but it would've allowed 6 additional power each for 4 ships. Of course this would've changed all the ISC maneuvering as well, so I'm not sure how the actual game would've turned out.

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:08 am

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:Not having W&P yet, but I recall the rear firing Fs are limited to 1 firing at a ship per TURN ---

That's all that was fired. Each CS launched 1 torp in impulse 8 turn 1 and 1 torp in impulse 1 turn 2.

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:17 am

Scoutdad wrote:
terryoc wrote:The ISC never runs away. They simply advance in the other direction...
Is that what you call the move orders issued to the CA in pbem FC0001???

The CA is... ah... executing a feint. Yeah, that's it.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:02 am

mojo jojo wrote:10 pts of extra damage did not make the difference in this fight. The only thing I can think of that may make a difference is if the Hydran didn't EM in turn 2. That would've resulted in 4 additional pulses hitting from PPDs, but it would've allowed 6 additional power each for 4 ships. Of course this would've changed all the ISC maneuvering as well, so I'm not sure how the actual game would've turned out.

Whether it made a difference or not we don't know, but you didn't take 10 extra. You actually took 27 and would have at most taken 12 (rolling 12 1's!!). It still appears you took ~20 more than you needed to, that is getting significant on a front shield.

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:36 pm

storeylf wrote:
mojo jojo wrote:10 pts of extra damage did not make the difference in this fight. The only thing I can think of that may make a difference is if the Hydran didn't EM in turn 2. That would've resulted in 4 additional pulses hitting from PPDs, but it would've allowed 6 additional power each for 4 ships. Of course this would've changed all the ISC maneuvering as well, so I'm not sure how the actual game would've turned out.
Whether it made a difference or not we don't know, but you didn't take 10 extra. You actually took 27 and would have at most taken 12 (rolling 12 1's!!). It still appears you took ~20 more than you needed to, that is getting significant on a front shield.

Sigh. You missed the fact that the FF were at range 3 again. Those 8 PH1 did the lion's share of the phaser damage on turn 1. The 12 PH1 at range 8 certainly didn't do 27 damage!

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:37 pm

mojo jojo wrote:
storeylf wrote:
mojo jojo wrote:10 pts of extra damage did not make the difference in this fight. The only thing I can think of that may make a difference is if the Hydran didn't EM in turn 2. That would've resulted in 4 additional pulses hitting from PPDs, but it would've allowed 6 additional power each for 4 ships. Of course this would've changed all the ISC maneuvering as well, so I'm not sure how the actual game would've turned out.
Whether it made a difference or not we don't know, but you didn't take 10 extra. You actually took 27 and would have at most taken 12 (rolling 12 1's!!). It still appears you took ~20 more than you needed to, that is getting significant on a front shield.
Sigh. You missed the fact that the FF were at range 3 again. Those 8 PH1 did the lion's share of the phaser damage on turn 1. The 12 PH1 at range 8 certainly didn't do 27 damage!

Doh - yes. sorry, after about a thousand miles of driving to parents/hospital and back over the last week I'm not concentrating enough.