Plans for PDF ship packs on e23.

Post by **Jean** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:28 am

Gentlemen, might I suggest that different people like different things? Part of what makes this world interesting is that we are not all cookie-cutter people. As such, we like things in a sliding scale of complexity. There is nothing wrong or right about that -- it is simply a state of being.

We all play games that are part of the SFU, be it FC, SFB, F&E, SFBF, or PD. We are gamers. We are different enough from those out in the world that we don't need to be driving wedges between ourselves.

We don't put each other down. We don't put down the games of the SFU. We respect each other.

Let's stop this here and now and move on.

Jean
WebMom

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:37 am

Let's consider the side discussion about police flagships and scout channels as closed. Any more posts will be deleted. If I have to delete any posts, I will go back and delete older messages so we won't get any new ones on that subject.

Note that discussions that are actually on-topic and don't have anything to do with police flagships and scout channels is still quite open.

terryoc · Post by **terryoc** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:15 am

For the Lyrans, perhaps the "heavy" frigate and "heavy" destroyer (with the extra ESG) that were featured in Cap Log.

A pack featuring bunch of Anarchists, featuring interesting Anarchist-type ships.

D7H Anarchist; Drone Ranger Maelstrom; the conjectural purchased Hydran ships for the LDR from CL #41; WYN captured/converted ships like the Selt FF, Gorn police ship and other oddballs they have.

Drew Klenotic · Post by **Drew Klenotic** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm

Just to add my opinion.... As I posted on another thread before I found this one...
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This is just my personal opinion, but I'd really prefer it if all ships that were available on e23 or in other briefings and supplements were available just like the regular ship cards too. I mean, I like things uniform in my game library. Either one way or the other.....

But that's probably just me, I guess.
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Now that said, you still have print on demand for the laminated ships, right? I'd be ok if they were only available on the website and not in stores, so I could order them (or special order them from my local game store since I like to support the local small businesses).

It was ok in SFB because it was all the same quality, no matter how you did it. Not so much the case here.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:00 pm

The problem is that it's not economically viable to produce every ship as a laminated card. The minimum production run is about four times what we sold of Booster 92, for example, which is why the plan to print booster 93 that I presented at the last board meeting was met with Leanna's derisive laughter and those ships will probably now be split up to go into e23 packs.

Alex Knight · Post by **Alex Knight** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:02 pm

Well, since I can't seem to remember my password for the Discus site, I'll just post my nomination here and hope someone else can toss it over there. Flipping through the Megahex module, I see that there is an AxDN for the Wyn. I think that I'd like to see that.

Also Shiva for Andros BoM pack?

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:16 pm

I posted the AuxDN. The Shiva should be covered under the "various maulers" umbrella.

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:51 pm

Speaking of maulers, didn't nancy eventually become a mauler ship? I think I read that in one of the old star fleet times.

So when will the Fed's variant pack come out? That's something I'll definetly want to get.

DirkSJ · Post by **DirkSJ** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:04 pm

After quite a bit of self reflection I probably won't be dipping into PDF ships until ISC or Andro ones come out. I feel like I have "enough" of the other empires to play whatever sort of game I want to. At least "enough" that the added hassle of self-lamination isn't worth it to me.

If more packs came out pre-laminated in the older empires I may consider those. With ISC and Andro I just don't feel like I have as many options yet and so even PDFs appeal.

That said, is there a Andro/ISC Attack expansion planned like Hydran Attack expanded Distant Kingdoms? I would much rather buy that honestly, but if PDFs will be the only route available I would still buy.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:36 pm

The theory was an "attack" module to follow War & Peace with more andro-vudar-ISC ships, BUT, Hydran Attack sold about 1/3 as many copies as Distant Kingdoms, making the idea marginal, and with the current crappy market, I'm not promising it will happen. It might, if the market is better next year, but right now, we're in the only recession that has EVER affected the wargame market sales. People a SCARED of losing their jobs (and/or seeing their taxes and health costs jump 30%) an are keeping their money in their bank accounts.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:48 pm

I know that the realities of economics do have a bearing on the planned product ranges, but I for one would love to see the Andro/ISC/Vudar fleets 'fleshed out' into full fleets like the Hydran Attack module did for the 'Distant Kingdoms' races. It would be a real shame if this didn't happen - even if it's well in the future.

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:58 pm

Yes, In fact I'd say that an ISC, Andro, whatever attack is more of a neccesity than the planned "Gorn Attack." This is based on the fact that the Gorn were a medium sized part of Romulan Border, and a Very Large Part of Romulan Attack. The Reaity is:

Feds: We already have most of their ships.
Klinks: We could use some more, but we have enough given the bizzare way their fleet is organized.
Kzinti: We have a decent number of these.
Tholian: We already have most of their ships.
Orion: We already have most of their ships.
Romulan: We have plenty due to the bizzare way their fleet is organized.
Gorn: We have a decent number of these.
Seletorian: We already have most of their ships.
Hydran: We have plenty due to the bizzare way their fleet is organized.
Lyran: We have a decent number of these.
WYN: We could use some more.
LDR: We have a decent number of these.
ISC: We need some more.
Andro: We need some more.
Vudar: We could use some more.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:54 pm

The Vudar are a minor empire with a small following. Keeping any follow ups to PDF makes sense for them.

The Andros only really NEED two units: Viper and SatBase. After that, anything is gravy. Making the combat monsters and various support ships PDF only is perfectly acceptable.

I do support giving the ISC more laminated cards if at all possible. I would very much like to see them get as many of the other "side ships" that other major empires got (e.g. CF, DNL, DNH, CW, DW, etc.). They obviously won't get them all, but a good half-dozen or so would be very nice to improving their "status".

But, all of this is moot for now. There is no reason to really keep running down this rabbit trail, as ADB won't be able to make any decisions until next year some time. So, instead of beating the various options to death right now, let's just give ADB the time they need to evaluate things, and see what they determine at that time.

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:53 pm

I would say that I considered skipping Hydran Attack because It had so many hydran ships, but very few of anything else (only a handful of Lyrans and 4 others, minus the monster). It said it would expand the Distant Kingdoms, but it only really expanded the Hydrans by any significant amount.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Sorry, but I like less and less of what I'm reading. I don't like pdfs, I love the laminates in the products. I find the idea of making certain ships pdf-only absolute anathema, especially as the price point is $10 - nearly the price of a laminated, physical booster-pack in the UK!!