FCOL Tournament: Information, Announcements and Deadlines

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:00 pm

That too

I wasn't saying it as in Democrats vs. Republicans, but just for freedom.

Drew Klenotic · Post by **Drew Klenotic** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:13 am

Democracy, Freedom and Economy are all different things.

You can technically enforce "freedom", or "democratically" vote for restrictive oppressive laws (that you can vote out at the next election) and either option can have either a "free" or "collective" economy.

Communism works, in theory.

Even Homer Simpson knows that!

But that said, I think part of the problem is that Fed ships are not designed to fight heavy drone races like the Kzinti (they're allies). Makes some of these "theoretical matchups" a little lopsided.

JimDauphinais · Post by **JimDauphinais** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:23 am

The Kzintis are able to up the Feds because of the number of drones they can launch. It effectively prevents the Fed players from using EM to shake off being sabre danced and chews up Fed energy (via phasers) if the Fed player tries to close.

This said, I am not yet convinced the Kzintis have an advantage over Photon/Gatling-armed Orions. However, it is not clear to me whether anyone chose that arming combination for the Orions for the online tournament (it is not yet available in FC Online).

I chose the Thoilins to see how they would do against the Kzintis (and because the Photon/Gatling Orion configuration wasn't yet available in FC Online). However, the Tholians may have a disadvantage against the Feds since they have no seeking weapons other than suicide shuttles.

The hope is that as we play a rock-paper-scissors relationship develops. That way no one empire will dominate.

As a final note, the Feds and Kzinti did fight in The Middle Years. The drones are slower and fewer in numbers during The Middle Years, but there are a lot less Phaser 3s and poor rear phaser coverage.

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:31 am

Drew Klenotic wrote:Communism works, in theory. Even Homer Simpson knows that!quote]

At what? Stripping away all freedom and killing hundreds of thousands of people? It does that really well.

But yes, I know the differences. It was just a joke for goodness sake

Drew Klenotic · Post by **Drew Klenotic** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:03 am

You never saw that Simpson's episode?

Yeah, I think the photon/gatling would be great. Like I said, just add 2 gatlings per ship. Or, toss an escort in with their 4 PGs. The problem with the matchups as it is, the Fed's don't have enough drones to go tit for tat. So the drones eat up all the P1's, and you really have nothing left but photons, every OTHER turn vs. the Kzints phasers and disruptors EVERY turn. Even if you use your drones offensively, you're only going to wipe out some of the Kzinti phaser fire. Even tractors won't help much and are really just a temporary fix.

In SFB, you have many more options. T-Bombs, EW, shuttle's phasers, etc. etc. etc. But in FC, you just don't really have that.

Now that's not to say it's an impossible position. There are some tactics that I pondered, but a lot of them rely on patience or lucky die rolls. I'd rather buy the booster or product that has a PG armed DE.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:31 am

Communism works, in theory. Even Homer Simpson knows that!
At what? Stripping away all freedom and killing hundreds of thousands of people? It does that really well.

But yes, I know the differences. It was just a joke for goodness sake

Thats not communism, thats totalatarian dictators. Its a bit like saying capitalism is good at stripping away freedoms (slavery) slaugtering hundreds of thousands (native indians, africans, etc). Capitalism and communism, democracy and dictators are all capable of being benign or malevolent.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:11 pm

Most government archetypes work well (in theory) -- problem lies in that you put people in positions to make government operate -- at that point everything goes to pot ---

mojo_billbo · Post by **mojo_billbo** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:35 pm

Anyway...

has anyone heard from Terry yet about Round #2?

Drew Klenotic · Post by **Drew Klenotic** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:52 pm

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:Most government archetypes work well (in theory) -- problem lies in that you put people in positions to make government operate -- at that point everything goes to pot ---

Oh no! What have we started! This is what happens when two guys try to out-smartallek each other!

Actually Mojo, it's YOUR fault! You and your "I wanna free market economy!" You SAW what it did to the Soviets and still you just HAD to have it!!!!

mojo_billbo · Post by **mojo_billbo** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:10 pm

That's why I'm trying to change the subject...

Post by **Jean** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:23 pm

Please do change the subject. We try very hard to keep this site politics free.

Jean
WebMom
(who is setting her #8 Griswold cast-iron frying pan within easy reach JIC)

Drew Klenotic · Post by **Drew Klenotic** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:59 pm

mojo_billbo wrote:That's why I'm trying to change the subject...

Still think we need to lobby for an emergency Fed PG mid-tourney upgrade!

pinecone · Post by **pinecone** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:09 pm

Hey, I won my battle

But, then again, I wasn't facing kzintis.

Andromedan · Post by **Andromedan** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:35 pm

Or an Orion with lots of Photons.

Patrick Doyle · Post by **Patrick Doyle** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:43 am

Here's how to beat the Kzinti With Feds* (maybe even with photon armed Orions)

I've usually been the one fighting against Kzinti, I rarely fly them.

Give this a try....
Fully overload your Photons and go speed zero on turn one. Even go evasive if someone with disruptors gets in range.

The Kzinti will probably be following in a wave of drones and move at a speed of 16**. On Turn 2 go speed 24. Time your approach to the drones so that you cn get around them by moving 24+1. Count the range to the drones so that you end an impulse 1 hex away with the drones on your #2 or #6 shield. Next impulse go 24+1. The drone won't hit you. You can end an impulse with the drones off shield 1, but you'll have to turn on sub-pulse 1. (practice this a little on a map before a game)

With the enemy drones behind you you have a clear path to the Kzinti ships. You'll have the initiative so get to range 1, 2 or 3 (to avoid phaser 3s) and let them have all photons and a few phasers. Then, to add insult to injury, launch your drones at any cripples to ensure it dies, or the other ships will be tied up protecting it. Caution, DON'T spend all your power, save a point or two on each ship, lest the Kzinti tractor beam you.

Get the hell away and reload. There is no miracle here. Drones are predicable, you know what they are going to do.

Even when at high speed, the Feds will have more firepower than the Disruptor armed ships. If you go 16 or slower, you'll end up using all your phasers on the drones, and the Kzinti will outgun you.

If the Kzinti decide to shoot a ship from range 5-8, return fire with that ship only and get closer with the others. Don't be goaded into firing early with more than you have to.

There are challenges with this approach, its not some magical tactic. The fact that you are being chased by drones means that your speed and maneuverability are restricted to high speed (meaning it will be difficult to cancel a move without getting hit.)

Good Luck.

* This information doesn't come with a guarantee, the Kzinti will get a vote.

** I can't guarantee this either.