Speed 40 Plasma

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:22 am

Did the Klingon vs Gorn test. The Klingon had 2 D5W and 1 D7C. The Gorn had CS + CM + CL.

Turn 1:

Klingons plotted 24 and Gorn plotted 16. This time Gorn EM'd for the full turn. I Emergency Decelerated on impulse 8 since I didn't want to get too close. My ships do about 8 shield damage after reinforcement to the CL. I launch 6 drones at the CM.

Turn 2:

We both plot 24. We get to within 4 hexes of each other. I fire 3 disrupters and 4 PH-1 from each ship. I didn't fire all my weapons since I wanted to leave enough discretionary power for a HET and a few accelerations. My fire guts the CL, leaving it with only a PL-S and about 14 power left. He carronades his 3 RP PL-F and fires all phasers at a D5W. He bolts a PL-S from the CL and it hits. My D5W loses its 1 shield and about half its boxes. I launch 6 drones at his CM and he launches a PL-R and 3 PL-S at my other D5W. Fortunately, his CL's PL-S was 1 hex behind his other ships' plasma.

My targetted D5W HETs and runs away. Due to speed 40, he is hit by 80 pts of plasma on impulse 5 on his 5 shield or 54 internals. I am able to take the CL's PL-S on the 4 shield on impulse 6 and thus only take a burnthrough. I lose a lot of power but still have 2 disrupters, all PH-1, and all drone racks.

For the rest of the turn, he uses high speed to outmaneuver the drones. My D7C and other damaged D5W manages to fire 3 PH1/2 each plus 1 overloaded disrupter at his CS and take down his shield and do a handful of internals. His CS and CM fire 3 PH1 each and carronade their LP PL-F at the damaged D5W and do more internals. H&R raids kill a PL-F and PH-1. The key was that I managed to get adjacent to the CS with the D7C at the end of the turn and tractor him.

Turn 3.

All my ships declare speed 0. He declares speed 24 with his CM and speed 8 with his other ships. I maintain the tractor. Impulse 1, we exchange alpha strikes. My damaged D5W accelerates out of the hex to present a fresh shield to him. I blow down his 1 shield and do 41 internals with the D7C. The D5W mostly knocks down his 5 shield. He mostly knocks down the 1 shield of the D7C. I launch 4 drones between my 2 ships and knock him down to about 5 or so total boxes.

His CM does some damage to me, but mostly outruns the drones. My long range shots do 8 pts to 2 separate shields.

At this point, he conceded. The CS was essentially dead and I would've easily killed the CL during turn 4. In exchange, I had 2 crippled D5Ws with 23 and 21 power respectively, but they each had 2 disrupters, 6 PH-1, and 2 drone racks left. I also had a D7C with a mostly down 1 shield but only 1 internal from a burnthrough. I couldn't catch him before he completely reloaded, but 1 CM, while it could do a ton of damage with 100 pts of plasma, can't defeat 3 ships, 1 of which was at nearly full strength.

This game was a lot closer than the Kzinti game. His remaining CM would've probably crippled the D7C or possibly killed the 2 crippled D5Ws before going down. If I didn't manage to tractor the CS, he probably would've gotten away along with the CM to reload and the game completely changes.

One thing about the Gorn is that they don't take weapon damage well. If the opponent consistently targets weapons, each pass through the 6 row will take down 3 phasers and 1 torp. A few passes through will leave a nearly toothless ship.

Another comment is that speed 40 forces a HET if you're close to the plasma ship. If it was speed 32 at 4 hexes. I could turn, slip a couple of times, turn again, and run away without having to HET.

Marcg · Post by **Marcg** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:14 am

One thing about the Gorn is that they don't take weapon damage well. If the opponent consistently targets weapons, each pass through the 6 row will take down 3 phasers and 1 torp. A few passes through will leave a nearly toothless ship.

Couldn't you say the same thing about any race?

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:47 am

Not really. A lot of other races either have some drone slots to soak up phaser damage and/or lots of PH2/3.

For the Gorn CM:

2 times through the 6 row leaves 2 PL-S and 3 PH-1
3 times through leaves 1 PL-S and no phasers assuming frame isn't being taken.

For a Kzinti NCA:

2 times through leaves 2 disrupters, 4 PH-1, 2 PH-3, 4 drone racks
3 times through leaves 1 disrupter, 4 PH-1, 3 drone racks

For a Klingon D5W:

2 times through leaves 2 disrupters, 6 PH-1, 2 drone racks
3 times through leaves 1 disrupter, 4 PH-1, 1 drone rack

Fed/Lyran NCA:

2 times through leaves 2 phot/disr, 6 PH1
3 times through leaves 1 phot/disr, 3 PH1

Selts/Tholians/WYN also tend to take damage much better than the equivalent Gorn. Andros take weapon row hits the worst.

Marcg · Post by **Marcg** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:05 am

Ok, you convinced me.

Savedfromwhat · Post by **Savedfromwhat** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:49 am

Any race win two weapons systems is at a disadvantage on the DAC. Plasma D seemed ships though have a small advantage as they act as a nice damage soak. Try to compare apples to apples though, the Gorn CM is not a war cruiser like all the others you listed mojo.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:52 am

Hydrans are terrible, no ph3s to soak phaser hits, and as Saved pointed out, with only Torp OR drone (for most of them) they take extra phaser hits on a 6 row, They're as bad as Andros.

In the aftermath of a 6 row disrupter races come of best, they at least can repair either a phaser or disrupter (situation depending) and fire it straight away, whereas plasma tubes are usually pointless bothering to repair, with the possible exception of carronable tubes.

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:22 pm

ISC probably take 6 row hits best with tons of PH3 and disposable PL-F tubes.

USS Enterprise · Post by **USS Enterprise** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:46 pm

mjwest wrote:The whole point of speed 40 plasma is to extend its reach. As a result, the plasma damage chart would not change. Like I said, mojo implemented it correctly.

As for the bolt suggestion, 1-5 to hit at 1-3 is way, way too good. Try asking for 1-5 to hit as ranges 0-1. Still a very long shot, but at least not an instant rejection.

I haven't even tried messing with the rules, but why is this?

Also, why are very short shots 1-4? It seems to me if you are right on them you should always hit shouldn't you? That's the way it is with other weapons?

It seems to me the reason was since Plasma Bolts were secondary uses of the weapons anyway, they wanted a quick and dirty table? That would make sense, but still...

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:20 am

Mojo,

Did the battle seem more enjoyable using speed 40 plasma? Did you feel like you had a fighting chance? Would you have rather had Envelopers at any point?

JimDauphinais · Post by **JimDauphinais** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:45 am

Do you feel Speed 40 Plasma is working out better than say simply handicapping the Plasma empire (i.e., applying a fractional multiplier to the printed point value of the Plasma empire's ships)? If so, why?

Savedfromwhat · Post by **Savedfromwhat** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:43 am

Jim oh should probably ask if he has tried lowering the hpv, otherwise your question is moot and any answer mojo gives would be biased and conjecture. I think speed 40 plasma might be neat but probably too good.

Perhaps with a built in limited that allows you to use savor (speed 40) but at an increased cost per plasma. This could be for tournaments and we could also add it to any scenarios that could use it kind of like the speed 32 drone. So if you like it play those scenarios and in tournaments, if you don't like it avoid those scenarios and choose to use speed 32 plasma getting a point boost and better power curves.

Depending of course on how much energy it costs to launch sabot

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:56 am

Monty wrote:Mojo,

Did the battle seem more enjoyable using speed 40 plasma? Did you feel like you had a fighting chance? Would you have rather had Envelopers at any point?

You'll have to ask killerjoe. He was the plasma side in both battles.

My gut feel is that speed 40 is probably too strong and spd 36 would be more appropriate. In the Klingon/Gorn game, I think I would've been slaughtered if I didn't manage to tractor his CS with my D7C. At that point, the trade was basically the Gorn CL for both D5W crippled. If the CS had escaped, my 2 crippled D5W didn't have enough power to pursue the Gorn ships and they would've been able to reload. At that point, they unleash about 170 pts of plasma to kill either the 2 cripples or the 1 good ship and win. The D7C by itself would not have been able to stop the Gorn ships from reloading or cause enough damage to cripple either.

duxvolantis · Post by **duxvolantis** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:29 pm

mojo jojo wrote:
Monty wrote:Mojo,

Did the battle seem more enjoyable using speed 40 plasma? Did you feel like you had a fighting chance? Would you have rather had Envelopers at any point?
You'll have to ask killerjoe. He was the plasma side in both battles.

My gut feel is that speed 40 is probably too strong and spd 36 would be more appropriate. In the Klingon/Gorn game, I think I would've been slaughtered if I didn't manage to tractor his CS with my D7C. At that point, the trade was basically the Gorn CL for both D5W crippled. If the CS had escaped, my 2 crippled D5W didn't have enough power to pursue the Gorn ships and they would've been able to reload. At that point, they unleash about 170 pts of plasma to kill either the 2 cripples or the 1 good ship and win. The D7C by itself would not have been able to stop the Gorn ships from reloading or cause enough damage to cripple either.

Part of the problem with plasma is that PPDs are quite powerful and ISC seem very competitive in FC. None of the tricks that worked to mitigate the effects of PDDs are available in FC (shifting EW to cause re-rolls, turning to spread the damage, etc) and the splash damage effect actually helps a little bit to make the 'shift 5 shields' rule less of an irritation.

Also even just speed 32 plasma is able to do the job properly for the ISC as the enemy has to try and get inside the myopic zone or they will just get ripped up at range.... esp with the loss of DERFACS and proximity photons. SPD 32 plasma is still fast if you are charging the plasma ship. The problem is that a single 60-degree turn lets any ship that wants to run the plasma out completely.

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:57 pm

If the sabot were available as an overload, I would imagine that it would see more use by the pure plasma empires (Gorn/Rom) because they don't have PPD's that need arming.

Hypothetically speaking of course, if it cost double to overload any plasma to a sabot i'm not sure it would be worth it all the time. 2 pts, for sure.

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:05 am

Steve Cole wrote:Launching plasma while cloaked: NO, and do not bring it up again.

Hey, chill man, no need to get the rolled paper out. T'was the only time I suggested it and never read it mentionned before.