Drones/Suicide Shuttles and Control

JimDauphinais · Post by **JimDauphinais** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:06 am

The rules as written do not currently cause Drones and Suicide Shuttles to be removed from the map when their controlling ship is more 25 hexes from the target of the Drones and Suicide Shuttles.

Was this intentional for FC?

If not, it appears the last sentence of the first paragraph of 4F2e needs to be expanded.

Blammo · Post by **Blammo** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:27 am

Rule (4F2a) states:

The launching unit must be within 25 hexes of the target at the time the seeking weapon is launched.

There is no requirement concerning this 25 hexes or less after launch. The only requirement is that the seeking weapons itself (drone or suicide shuttle) stay with 25 hexes of the launching/controlling unit.

Rule (4F2e) states:

Weapons more than 25 hexes from the controlling ship also self-destruct.

Also, rule (2E1b) states that a 35 hex separation between ships counts for disengagement.

So, I am not sure what you are asking, but it does seem the rule book covers the scenario you are describing.

JimDauphinais · Post by **JimDauphinais** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:24 am

Yes, but it is not a question of what the rules say.

It is a question of whether that was intended, and, if not, whether the rules should be changed to be make them consistent with SFB in this respect. Those are questions for Mike West and, ultimately, Steve.

Note that disengagement at 35 or more hexes is voluntary. You can stay engaged beyond 34 hexes if you so choose.

The issue came up in an online tournament game. My opponent wanted to eliminate the large number of suicide shuttles that I had put up. So he ran his ships beyond 25 hexes from mine since that will apparently work in SFB.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:34 am

So he ran his ships beyond 25 hexes from mine since that will apparently work in SFB.

Don't know about FC Tournament -- but in SFB Tourney, that would violate the engagement rule and get him a loss --

JimDauphinais · Post by **JimDauphinais** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:38 am

My play may have technically been in violation of a SFB tournament rule as well under the label of not being aggresive enough. However, this was a FC torunament where both were allowed. Whether we allow such play in the next FC Online tournament is the subject for a different topic that I will eventually open in the FC Online part of the forum.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:44 am

I asked that exact question about the targets range here

JimDauphinais · Post by **JimDauphinais** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:08 pm

The older topic confirms that my interpretation of the rules is correct as the rules stand. It does not go to intent.

It matters very little in FC for Drones because of the 3 end of turn limit. However, it does matter for Suicide Shuttles.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:23 pm

When the issue was raised to Steve (because there initially were no limits at all), this was the solution he came up with. Therefore, I have to assume this was his intention.

Blammo · Post by **Blammo** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:28 pm

JimDauphinais wrote:It matters very little in FC for Drones because of the 3 end of turn limit. However, it does matter for Suicide Shuttles.

Per (4F2d), Suicide shuttles do not have an endurance limit:

Suicide shuttles and suicide freighters effectively have no limit on their endurance.

I could be wrong, but I think you are asking something that is already answered within the rules. If the rules state a certain thing, by definition it infers the intent. If the intent were otherwise, it would read so.

The controlling ship has to be within 25 hexes of the drones/SS or else they self destruct. By implication, if they want to hit the target, the target, at the moment of impact, will have to be at a range of 25 hexes or less. As the other thread summarized, if you stay 26 hexes away from the controlling unit, the drone/SS will never hit you (because they will self destruct when they get more than 25 hexes from the controlling unit.

I would say self destruct pretty much means they would be removed from the map

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:10 pm

He wasn't asking something already in the rules. The question was the one I was asking - we could see from the rules that the drones had to be within 25 of the controlling ship at all times, that was never in doubt. What the rules were not clear on is whether the target had to remain within 25 hexes of either the drone or controller, and in FC 25 hexes is the maximum for just about everything. Given you can only launch at a target 25 hexes away it didn't seem unreasonable to think the target might have to stay within 25 hexes of drones/controller as well or tracking woud be lost. I.E. if the target moves to range 26 just after launch would the drones drop tracking there and then.

PS I disagree about it not mattering for drones much. It comes up in quite a few of our games. Drones have a tendency to be around for quite a while (3-4 turns is a long time in FC) so keeping track of the ranges to controller and target is quite important, it isn't uncommon in a multi ship fight to find that a couple of turns after launch that the 2 ships are heading away from each other at long range and the 25 limit becomes significant. Indeed todays game saw a D6 just manage to sneak out to range 26 from the controller ship with drones just behind it, hence they dropped just before impact.

JimDauphinais · Post by **JimDauphinais** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:19 pm

Lee has it right. The rules are clear. I just wanted to make sure the rules as written in regard to this issue are as intended. Based on Mike's post, it appears they are written as intended. Thanks.